Fuel Additives - Information, Comparison, & Personal Experiences

[SHOdded]

This thread is where you can consolidate any/all discussions of fuel additives - for whatever you are using them for, for whatever you have heard them used for.  Please post links/attachments as available to help facilitate discussion & understanding

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A brief intro to Ferrous Picrate
http://www.fpc1.com/faq.php
http://www.fpc1.com/test_reports/public/to%20be%20combined/Fuel%20Technology%20PtyLtd/scan0008.pdf

Difference between Ferrocene & Ferrous Picrate:
http://www.fpc1.com/sci_ferrocene.php

 

[BND 370 Hemi]

I neglected to mention that ANY METALS in the fuel are bad news long term.  We have to add metal deactivation compounds in ACES IV to deal with the normal copper and vanadium that is inherent in the fuels that cause gum, varnish and deposits.

Ferrous Picrate, Ferro organo metallic complexes , any copper, platinum, cerium or rhodium products in any form should be avoided.  They cause such problems that we had to independently test ACES for all of these metals as no metals are allowed if you supply a fuel additive to the military for military vehicles:

AL,Sb,Ba,B,Ca,Cr,Cu,Fe,Pb,K,Mg,Mo,Na,Ni,P,Si,Ag,Sn,Zn,Sr,V,Ti,and Cd all below 1 ppm!

The additives that contain these are also acidic and cause problems with your oils as well. 

These are the facts even though there may be people here that are presently fans of them!

Regards,
Brian
BND Automotive LLC
440-821-9040
www.bndautomotive.com

 

 

[92BlackGT]

I went through my first tank of gas with ACES IV in there. After a 30 mile drive right after the fill up I noticed how quiet it was under the hood. I can't hear the HPFP anymore, it just sounds like a typical DOHC engine under the hood now. My second drive i noticed hesitation when applying gas. I was pulling out of a parking lot and hit the gas but didn't move much, just kept idling. After a couple of seconds, the car finally started to accelerate like it should but the drive down the freeway I could feel hesitation and the Instant MPG meter was reading really low.
Later that night my drive to work felt normal and ever since then it has been normal. MPG's are roughly the same as before but it is still nice and quiet under the hood. I'm going on a 1500 mile road trip this weekend so we'll see how she does. I got 27 mpg on a trip to Memphis in July but that has a 1000 ft total elevation drop. OKC to Rochester, MN is a pretty dang flat drive, only 170 ft total elevation drop. Hopefully i'll be getting the same or better MPG

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

That is so weird....

I went from a E-85 + meth blend to ACES and straight 93 and the car didn't miss a beat.

 

[92BlackGT]

i never did pull the battery cable or reset the ECU in any way. i am completely stock but other than that one hiccup its been good ever since.
After this wedding happens in 2 weeks I'll be able to get with Torrie and get a tune. I'm looking forward to results you get with the tune, FoMoCo

 

[92BlackGT]

well, my road trip went without incident and I put over 1600 miles on the car. MPG going to Minnesota was 27.8 going mostly 70 to 80 with the cruise set to 80 in most of Kansas. Winds were calm and it was in the 90's most of the way until dark and then dropped into the 70's and very humid. The way back I got 25.2 MPG but had a pretty stiff headwind. Kansas and Oklahoma there was a good 20 mph wind. I ran whatever premium the gas station happened to have. Most were 91 E10 (Minnesota had 92 E10).
My exhaust tips are staying a lot cleaner so that's another benefit of this ACES IV.

 

[ZSHO]

That is so weird....

I went from a E-85 + meth blend to ACES and straight 93 and the car didn't miss a beat.

whats a gallon of that moonshine going for,thanks.  Z

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I went through my first tank of gas with ACES IV in there. After a 30 mile drive right after the fill up I noticed how quiet it was under the hood. I can't hear the HPFP anymore, it just sounds like a typical DOHC engine under the hood now. My second drive i noticed hesitation when applying gas. I was pulling out of a parking lot and hit the gas but didn't move much, just kept idling. After a couple of seconds, the car finally started to accelerate like it should but the drive down the freeway I could feel hesitation and the Instant MPG meter was reading really low.
Later that night my drive to work felt normal and ever since then it has been normal. MPG's are roughly the same as before but it is still nice and quiet under the hood. I'm going on a 1500 mile road trip this weekend so we'll see how she does. I got 27 mpg on a trip to Memphis in July but that has a 1000 ft total elevation drop. OKC to Rochester, MN is a pretty dang flat drive, only 170 ft total elevation drop. Hopefully i'll be getting the same or better MPG

I've been thinking about this and it makes me think the ACES may have disloged some sort of injector build up and then it needed a little time to break it up.....

 

[Dxlnt1]

My quick and dirty recap of ACES IV. First, these comments do NOT pertain to my SHO but rather my daily driver 2004 GMC Yukon XL 4x4.

The truck just tipped 100k miles few months ago. I was interested in preserving it. Vehicle has ZERO issues with running, starting, shifting, cooling etc. The only complaint is gas mileage. In which I average roughly 10 mpg city, and 13 mpg highway. Upon initial installation of the ACES I did notice my throttle response was much improved. And although the engine bay was and engine in general was already very quiet, it seemed quieter! I was overdue for trans, coolant and differential changes so I took the opportunity to replace those fluids with the BND brands. Again, I cant quantify any improvement per se, because the truck was already awesome.

I compared a 760 mile trip taken last year in the GMC and an 825 mile trip last week in the GMC. Initially I thought I achieved better mpg as that's what my mileage log showed on last entry screen. But after analyzing numbers, and using averages for trip duration I actually achieved almost 1 mpg LESS using the ACES. 13.872 vs 14.776. I spoke with Brian at BND and the initial thought was I may need to run more since the truck is a high mileage vehicle. My SHO is at 60k miles, so can use this as reference. Brian and I spoke and the thought was emissions test results would really show  what the ACES is doing. So if anyone is due for emissions testing, consider getting before and after emissions (exhaust) test. Especially if no access to dyno. I will be using more as a quieter engine bay is more gooder right? The ACES definitely quieted the SHO engine bay. As the SHO is the most noisiest car I have ever owned as far as under the hood "noise".

The return trip in 2014 shows a steep decline in mileage. This is because driving over the "Grapevine" here in California. Which is roughly 40 miles of hill at 5-7% grade.

I just thought about this, the trip last year on the return half, I was pulling a U-Haul trailer. Maybe 4000 lbs loaded. Now Im really stumped.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

There are so many damn variables when trying to calculate MPG's so for me, any perceived benefit is just a possible bonus nothing else.

Trip length, terrain, weather, altitude, loaded weight, fuel type, quality, octane (labeled vs actual pumped in), bad mood, construction, red lights, yellow lights, toll booths, LEO's, naggy wife, astral sign, I mean damn I'd just drive myself nuts trying to account for the multitude of variables.

One of my trip monitors has not been reset since I bought the car. Prior to ACES (4Kish miles) I was at a miserly 14 MPG (LOL!) Over the last couple of fill ups with the ACES, I am up to 14.7, WOOHOO! Does that mean I'm getting better mileage? Maybe? Maybe the motor is breaking in? Maybe I've just been a kinder, gentler FoMoCoSHO.....doubtful, LOL!

I'd suspect it will just take some time for ACES to clean up 100K of crap...Having to burn years of deposits is bound to affect FE in a negative way.

For now I would just drive it and try to figure out some way to get a somewhat consistent testing methodology maybe using a specific piece of road, consistent pump, and the built in mileage tool if that vehicle has them. The problem now is the "genie is out of the bottle" so to speak.

If you've been tracking religiously I'm sure some possibly better data will begin to emerge over time. I'd say driving in your normal sphere of influence will yield better data anyway.

Good luck, keep us updated, and try not to drive yourself batshit crazy figuring it out, LOL!

Edit-When I averaged your tank ending MPGs

12.65 Pre ACES
14.64 After ACES

Disclosure- My mental faculties have not 100% returned so my math could be off.

I added the pre aces ending MPG's totals and divided by 5
Did the same for post ACES and divided by 4 (threw out the 0 ending tank)

 

[Dxlnt1]

There are so many damn variables when trying to calculate MPG's so for me, any perceived benefit is just a possible bonus nothing else.

Trip length, terrain, weather, altitude, loaded weight, fuel type, quality, octane (labeled vs actual pumped in), bad mood, construction, red lights, yellow lights, toll booths, LEO's, naggy wife, astral sign, I mean damn I'd just drive myself nuts trying to account for the multitude of variables.

One of my trip monitors has not been reset since I bought the car. Prior to ACES (4Kish miles) I was at a miserly 14 MPG (LOL!) Over the last couple of fill ups with the ACES, I am up to 14.7, WOOHOO! Does that mean I'm getting better mileage? Maybe? Maybe the motor is breaking in? Maybe I've just been a kinder, gentler FoMoCoSHO.....doubtful, LOL!

I'd suspect it will just take some time for ACES to clean up 100K of crap...Having to burn years of deposits is bound to affect FE in a negative way.

For now I would just drive it and try to figure out some way to get a somewhat consistent testing methodology maybe using a specific piece of road, consistent pump, and the built in mileage tool if that vehicle has them. The problem now is the "genie is out of the bottle" so to speak.

If you've been tracking religiously I'm sure some possibly better data will begin to emerge over time. I'd say driving in your normal sphere of influence will yield better data anyway.

Good luck, keep us updated, and try not to drive yourself batshit crazy figuring it out, LOL!

Edit-When I averaged your tank ending MPGs

12.65 Pre ACES
14.64 After ACES

Disclosure- My mental faculties have not 100% returned so my math could be off.

I added the pre aces ending MPG's totals and divided by 5
Did the same for post ACES and divided by 4 (threw out the 0 ending tank)

OK, now all thats funny lol. I love it. But when calculating mileage according to my chart remember I was calculating just for the trip itself. Which was to to allow for a good run in under load. I will look at the rest of the data and compare LONG TERM up to this point. I have very little doubt the ACES  isn't helping just trying to quantify it scientifically is challenging for me with my limited resources.

I do not rely on a vehicles ecm to calculate mileage. THAT IS TOTALLY BOGUS TO ME!  I record mileage at EVERY fill up and gas stop. So I can get a real world test result for my driving. The long trip was my driving on steroids. Probably averaged  80 mph. Some burst up to maybe 110 mph. Mostly though I just cruised.

You right about cleaning 100k of crap which is why I reordered a gallon of the ACES IV. When I get the gallon in I will make a special 400 mile trip in the SHO to get a good run in with it. But since I already added to ACES to SHO I only wish I had done emissions and/or dyno testing first to see for myself the improvements realized.

 

[SHOdded]

Here is my preliminary analysis.  Phun with Numbers

 

[Dxlnt1]

Here is my preliminary analysis.  Phun with Numbers

Spot on analysis lol.

For my truck, my interest has always been longevity, mpg, and performance. In that order. So the MPG calcs are the only numbers to quantify any realized gain. I will NOT take my 9000 lb truck to the track or dyno. That is not needed for my real world daily driver. Not that kind of vehicle.

For the SHO my priorities will be longevity, performance and mpg. In that order. I need real world test results for real world driving. Not tricks and/or gimmicks. Which is why I do NOT depend on the vehicles ecm "calculated" mpg. Rather actual mileage.

I have mileage collected on my cars for about 5 years. Only time the numbers got a bit out of whack is the times when I changed devices to record the data. I am changing again soon as I HATE my android phone. Going back to iPhone. But trying to compare apples to apples becomes more challenging. No pun intended. As was stated, time of day, quality of gas, mood of significant other, LEO's in area all contributing factors.

 

[SHOdded]

"apples to apples" LOL.  Data collection, especially over a prolonged period, is a daunting task.  The hope is that the "average" of the miscellaneous factors involved follows a straight & predicatable path, and major deviations are duly noted.

 

[Dxlnt1]

OHHHHH MMMMMMM  FRIGGINNNN  GEEEEEEE.

Since my OBD reader errors last month I think, I had been running my car stock. I left it that way to see if DTC codes or errors reappear in which none of em did. And to re appreciate the 4 plus tune.  SO thanks for those who pointed me to a better OBD 2 reader.

That being said, I decided to retune car today. Since I added the ACES IV to the last 2 fill ups, I figured I would try the 93 4 + X tune. (I only have 91 octane in Cali). Wow, this MF! WOW! The 91 vs 93 tune is night and day. My point with mentioning this here is I don't have 93 octane available to me, so I could never get the "BEST" tune that LMS offers. But the ACES allows the car to run it. I do not have the KR pid's working (I tried) to see if any ill effects but the car runs awesome. Way more aggressive tune. Chirping 1-2, 2-3 shifts. Blasts outta the whole. Had mustang GT that tried to play on my way home from New Mexico. I think after I blew by and around him from about 45 mph to 100 mph, he thought different about wanting to play.

I will be speaking with Brian in coming days about his racing formulation. At this point, LMS I don't think has been contacted to do any trials with its, so I want to see if I use the racing version, and NOT tuned for it, will I see any gains? I may need to get Torrie tunes as he appears more apt to tweak tunes for people. THOUGHTS?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

OHHHHH MMMMMMM  FRIGGINNNN  GEEEEEEE.

Since my OBD reader errors last month I think, I had been running my car stock. I left it that way to see if DTC codes or errors reappear in which none of em did. And to re appreciate the 4 plus tune.  SO thanks for those who pointed me to a better OBD 2 reader.

That being said, I decided to retune car today. Since I added the ACES IV to the last 2 fill ups, I figured I would try the 93 4 + X tune. (I only have 91 octane in Cali). Wow, this MF! WOW! The 91 vs 93 tune is night and day. My point with mentioning this here is I don't have 93 octane available to me, so I could never get the "BEST" tune that LMS offers. But the ACES allows the car to run it. I do not have the KR pid's working (I tried) to see if any ill effects but the car runs awesome. Way more aggressive tune. Chirping 1-2, 2-3 shifts. Blasts outta the whole. Had mustang GT that tried to play on my way home from New Mexico. I think after I blew by and around him from about 45 mph to 100 mph, he thought different about wanting to play.

I will be speaking with Brian in coming days about his racing formulation. At this point, LMS I don't think has been contacted to do any trials with its, so I want to see if I use the racing version, and NOT tuned for it, will I see any gains? I may need to get Torrie tunes as he appears more apt to tweak tunes for people. THOUGHTS?

I have some of the race formula but have been unable to try to test that or anything else....

I have a few different combinations i want to try including E20 with both ACES versions.

But yeah, Torrie will definitely continue to ramp up the power as the data logs show safe conditions.

Maybe we should send him a bottle to tune with on the dyno, lol...

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

We need to figure out what's going on in your KR pids.

 

[Dxlnt1]

I would be willing to help buy a bottle for him to try out. Hopefully with some semi aggressive tuning, may squeeze another 20-50 hp out?

Would Torrie allow any kind of trade in? I have LMS tunes, But I think I would have to buy new tuner plus tunes to use his tunes. Or can you think I could pay a a "tune" fee just for the tunes and use my existing MyCal programmer?

 

[Dxlnt1]

With the 93 tune the BOV, turbo whistle and exhaust purr are more pronounced. Is that normal?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I would be willing to help buy a bottle for him to try out. Hopefully with some semi aggressive tuning, may squeeze another 20-50 hp out?

Would Torrie allow any kind of trade in? I have LMS tunes, But I think I would have to buy new tuner plus tunes to use his tunes. Or can you think I could pay a a "tune" fee just for the tunes and use my existing MyCal programmer?

I don't think he uses the Mycal at all, so yeah IIRC, its about $400 with the X4.

When I bought the 2015, it was $199 since I have the x4 already.

You can always sell the mycal here, but comparisons are always fun especially if you have an extra $400.00 burning a hole in your wallet.