Getting dealers to fix the TSB involving the "clunky" downshifts ect...

J

jimmyducati

New member
Has anyone been successful in getting a dealer to perform the TSB that involves the harsh upshift/downshift and delayed throttle tip in? My SHO constantly has the slow throttle tip in (no response from the gas pedal for the first x percentage of application, then rapid acceleration) and more than a few times a week it will do the "harsh/clunky" upshift and downshift after coasting for a period of time. the upshift/downshift clunk is difficult to replicate and is not predictable, so replicating it for a technician likely wont happen. I asked a dealer in florida if I could get the TSB performed if I paid for the transmission flush, but they said no...
 
I'm not sure the tip in issue is tranny related. On my car, stock and tuned, tip in (especially coming out of decel cut off) causes the car to go absurdly rich....Lambda drops to .80 sometimes. It's annoying but I think it may be necessary coming of of ultra lean mode to re-wet the cylinders.

Of course I could be completely wrong and it could just be a programming flaw.



 
FoMoCoSHO said:
I'm not sure the tip in issue is tranny related. On my car, stock and tuned, tip in (especially coming out of decel cut off) causes the car to go absurdly rich....Lambda drops to .80 sometimes. It's annoying but I think it may be necessary coming of of ultra lean mode to re-wet the cylinders.

Of course I could be completely wrong and it could just be a programming flaw.
Click to expand...

I doubt a programming flaw or to wet the cylinders. Mine does it too. Most likely to combat spark knock and pre-ignition due to the mometarily lean condition that will occur on tip in. Your AFR's will be above 30 during decel. So it needs to richen up very fast.
 
Interesting hypothetics. But assuming everything is as it should be mechanically, such an event (momentary lean condition) doesn't occur in modern engines. In fact, there's likely tuning provisions mapped into the ECU to limit those occurrences. Acceleration enrichment tables.

That's mostly an occurrence in a carbed engine, when you're at the mercy of the venturi effect.
 
IHeartGroceries said:
Interesting hypothetics. But assuming everything is as it should be mechanically, such an event (momentary lean condition) doesn't occur in modern engines. In fact, there's likely tuning provisions mapped into the ECU to limit those occurrences. Acceleration enrichment tables.

That's mostly an occurrence in a carbed engine, when you're at the mercy of the venturi effect.
Click to expand...

There absolutely are lean conditions that can be momentary and longer...during a decel u are full lean as there is no fuel being pumped in....unless u have coasting fuel shutoff disable which normally u don't ....so how do u figure the transition from lean to rich or even lean to stoich happens I heart?...and the tuning u are referring to that controls tip in fueling is called transient fuel...and yes it can be tuned out but it can be tricky but I've see the slightly rich tips ins to be desirable to help combat preignition during that brief time when lean...also it's very common to have spark retard during tip in to again help the same thing...this to me is one advantage of speed density or map tuning as opposed to maf tuning...we get an instant read of air mass in the manifold
 
the throttle issue isn't only when accelerating immediately following a decel, its 100% overtime i press the gas pedal. leaving a stop light, accelerating on the highway, its like the ecu doesnt recognize the first so many degrees of throttle application, then all the sudden has to catch up with itself.

Anyway, the more worrisome (and main point of my original post) was how to get the transmission tsb done to prevent the harsh or clunky upshifts following a decal. Has anyone been successful at getting a dealer to do this, and how did you do it?
 
I understand your fustration and the hardship of finding a solution to your problems can be overwhelming,my dealer is a 3 hour round trip for me,the best thing is to locate a dealer,for instance a tuner friendly dealer,but in your case one that will perform the TSB reflash of the transmission which is one hour labor tops,buy the shop forman or service manager some coffee or lunch,it doesnt hurt,best of luck to you and keep us updated.Z.
 
I am tuned, have been for the last 30k (LMS 4+) only mod so far other than new plugs with the appropriate gap and general maintenance stuff. It has done this since I bought the car unmodded w25k miles on it. Does it tuned and with the stock tune (I have swapped out several times to see if it corrects itself with no luck).

I thought the transmission tsb fix was to remove the valve body and shuffle a check ball and maybe remove a spring or two? At least thats what stuart ford in florida told me, thats why I asked if it could be done for me if I paid for a transmission flush, they said hell no. If its a reflash, you would think LMS would have already incorporated it into their stuff?
 
You can tell with Torque which gear you are starting out in, I believe there is a custom PID for that on this forum?  If it IS starting out in 5th gear, you'll find out right away.
 
Jimmy, are you under extended warranty?

Keep in mind TSB's are not recalls, they are bulletins for techs and if you are out of warranty you pretty much have to pay to play.

Ford does not pay claims for out of warranty TSB's.

Keep in mind even under warranty the dealership doesn't want to do them without verification because Ford doesn't like to pay secondary claims if the TSB doesn't actually fix it.
 
I am under extended warranty (ford certified used) for another 25k. I understand that a TSB isn't a valid warranty claim, thats why I asked if it could be done if I paid for a transmission flush. I figured that would be an incentive because they would already have the transmission fluid emptied, a few bolts and presto... another satisfied customer and some cash in their pockets.
 
But how would they account for any parts involved?

If the parts aren't much, I'd just pay for it since it sounds like most of the labor is overlapping with the tranny flush anyway.

 
FoMoCoSHO said:
But how would they account for any parts involved?

If the parts aren't much, I'd just pay for it since it sounds like most of the labor is overlapping with the tranny flush anyway.
Click to expand...

If this is the valve body TSB where they remove a checkable valve and new updated valve cover plate, the total parts were just under $20. What you're paying for is the cost of labor really which is 3 hours.

PART NAME/NUMBER

Valve Body Separator Plate Gasket
BT4Z-7Z490-B
Valve Body Separator Plate
7T4Z-7Z490-D
 
that is exactly the tsb I'm talking about... any dealer who isn't willing to accommodate a customer (a customer willing to meet them way more than half way by opting in for a tranny flush) to get a KNOWN PROBLEM fixed, will not see my business at any point in the future. It just seems way more difficult than it should be to find a service department that is in this game for more than just fixing cars, customer satisfaction and the idea of a repeat customer seems to be lost, at least with the service managers I have had to deal with just in the last year.

FoMoCoSHO, thank you for checking in on this for me, I would gladly make the trek to a dealer who actually cares about the customer and not just volume of cars moved.
 
Well, its easy to blame the dealers but please keep in mind dealers have policies they have to adhere to that are contractual with Ford.

Ford's policy is the tech has to verify the claim. You are asking the tech and the dealership to lie to Ford.

And what happens if a tech applies a TSB that wasn't verified, doesn't fix the problem, or the problem get worse, or new part wasn't the issue and causes a failure of a worn previously unidentified part?

Ford and or ESP will not pay the secondary claim and the dealer gets stuck.

There is far more behind the scenes going on and High Command has actually spent time dealing with all these things behind the scenes in the d-ship warranty dept.

There's a lot of things dealers would love to do for their guests but cannot or risk an audit, losing blue oval certification (which is a ton of money), etc.

For these reasons I see it the opposite, I wouldn't want to go to a dealership that blows off their commitments and responsibilities to Ford. What makes you think they are going to hold up their end of the bargain with you?

We all have jobs with responsibilities and policies we must adhere to. There are plenty of policies I disagree with at my job but I get paid to enforce policy, not make it. Car dealerships aren't any different. As frustrating as this is for you the dealership is behaving correctly. I can also tell you if this were me, I wouldn't get any special treatment either.






 
Well, how about if the dealership has to change out the water pump under warranty, but won't change the timing belt/tensioner (at customer expense for parts/additional labor required, of course) while in there?  Must be some happy medium.
 
SHOdded said:
Well, how about if the dealership has to change out the water pump under warranty, but won't change the timing belt/tensioner (at customer expense for parts/additional labor required, of course) while in there?  Must be some happy medium.
Click to expand...
Non issue and I have no idea why any dealership wouldn't do that. Warranty pay isn't great and that would actually help make the job worthwhile.
 
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