Hesitation in boost and high rpm

[ajpturbo]

Wanted to post a screenshot but didnt have time....i have a car that im tuning that has the same strategy as yours..fuel pressure is fine with no special changes and am doing what i always do.

So thats what makes me say its hardware

 

[TopherSho]

I have been driving the car on the stock tune for the second day and it feels healthier. Throughout the RPM band its obviously slower but it has like a harmony to it, I can feel there is no monkey business going on with it even though from the logs, you can see its heavily closing the throttle.

There was also sometimes a drop in rpm on the LMS tune when i would be coming to a complete stop which would cause a bit of a vibration (rpm dropped) and the rpm would then jump a bit past idle and calm down to a regular steady idle. I can't reproduce that on the stock tune.

Mine does that goofy idle drop as well.

Mine used too until I had my strategy updated... no longer does it do that.

Mind if I ask what strategy you have now, and how/what did you tell the Dealer to get them to do the update for you? 
I am on KHDK4, and one tuner had mentioned it might be nice to make sure I am on the latest strategy.  When I asked the dealer they pushed back saying no reason to do it.

I know mine idles low and bounces around a bit at idle.

The original strategy for my 2010 SHO was DMJK1AB and then after several updates it is now at DMJKBLA. Livernois had to "build" a new tune for my strategy since I was the first one with that strategy to get a tune.

The first dealer I went too flat out refused to perform a strategy update. The dealership a bit further down the road didn't even question, they were more than happy to take my $100....

In on a dmjk1ab


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really?!?!?

SCT had never even heard of this STRATEGY before I called them and send them pics of the SCT tuner .. I am currently running DMJKBLA .. the previous OEM firmware was spastic as hell.  if i put my foot on the gas in park.. just a tiny bit it would idle up to 1000rpm .. then choke itself out.. drop under 400,  sputter, recover... then do it all over again about every 50-60 seconds on the nose.

AJP had me update prior to tuning and it no longer does that ..

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I have been driving the car on the stock tune for the second day and it feels healthier. Throughout the RPM band its obviously slower but it has like a harmony to it, I can feel there is no monkey business going on with it even though from the logs, you can see its heavily closing the throttle.

There was also sometimes a drop in rpm on the LMS tune when i would be coming to a complete stop which would cause a bit of a vibration (rpm dropped) and the rpm would then jump a bit past idle and calm down to a regular steady idle. I can't reproduce that on the stock tune.

Mine does that goofy idle drop as well.

Mine used too until I had my strategy updated... no longer does it do that.

Mind if I ask what strategy you have now, and how/what did you tell the Dealer to get them to do the update for you? 
I am on KHDK4, and one tuner had mentioned it might be nice to make sure I am on the latest strategy.  When I asked the dealer they pushed back saying no reason to do it.

I know mine idles low and bounces around a bit at idle.

The original strategy for my 2010 SHO was DMJK1AB and then after several updates it is now at DMJKBLA. Livernois had to "build" a new tune for my strategy since I was the first one with that strategy to get a tune.

The first dealer I went too flat out refused to perform a strategy update. The dealership a bit further down the road didn't even question, they were more than happy to take my $100....

In on a dmjk1ab


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really?!?!?

SCT had never even heard of this STRATEGY before I called them and send them pics of the SCT tuner .. I am currently running DMJKBLA .. the previous OEM firmware was spastic as hell.  if i put my foot on the gas in park.. just a tiny bit it would idle up to 1000rpm .. then choke itself out.. drop under 400,  sputter, recover... then do it all over again about every 50-60 seconds on the nose.

AJP had me update prior to tuning and it no longer does that ..

SCT is full of crap... I have the same strategy..... and have called them for support...

 

[polskifacet]

Wanted to post a screenshot but didnt have time....i have a car that im tuning that has the same strategy as yours..fuel pressure is fine with no special changes and am doing what i always do.

So thats what makes me say its hardware

I know man but I have done everything that LMS has suggested and see no clear sign of anything being wrong. Anything failing would continue to fail, get worse and I would see a change. It is completely static.

I'm thinking about putting in an aftermarket fuel line but would need community support on the correct fittings and retrofitting the fuel pressure sensor near the tank.

 

[TopherSho]

I have been driving the car on the stock tune for the second day and it feels healthier. Throughout the RPM band its obviously slower but it has like a harmony to it, I can feel there is no monkey business going on with it even though from the logs, you can see its heavily closing the throttle.

There was also sometimes a drop in rpm on the LMS tune when i would be coming to a complete stop which would cause a bit of a vibration (rpm dropped) and the rpm would then jump a bit past idle and calm down to a regular steady idle. I can't reproduce that on the stock tune.

Mine does that goofy idle drop as well.

Mine used too until I had my strategy updated... no longer does it do that.

Mind if I ask what strategy you have now, and how/what did you tell the Dealer to get them to do the update for you? 
I am on KHDK4, and one tuner had mentioned it might be nice to make sure I am on the latest strategy.  When I asked the dealer they pushed back saying no reason to do it.

I know mine idles low and bounces around a bit at idle.

The original strategy for my 2010 SHO was DMJK1AB and then after several updates it is now at DMJKBLA. Livernois had to "build" a new tune for my strategy since I was the first one with that strategy to get a tune.

The first dealer I went too flat out refused to perform a strategy update. The dealership a bit further down the road didn't even question, they were more than happy to take my $100....

In on a dmjk1ab


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really?!?!?

SCT had never even heard of this STRATEGY before I called them and send them pics of the SCT tuner .. I am currently running DMJKBLA .. the previous OEM firmware was spastic as hell.  if i put my foot on the gas in park.. just a tiny bit it would idle up to 1000rpm .. then choke itself out.. drop under 400,  sputter, recover... then do it all over again about every 50-60 seconds on the nose.

AJP had me update prior to tuning and it no longer does that ..

SCT is full of crap... I have the same strategy..... and have called them for support...

Hmpf I have not had satisfactory interactions with SCT until I talked to Kevin.. he's the one who put my dmr ticket in.  Everyone else has not been confidence inspiring..

 

[SHOdded]

Dang all that quoting makes it hard to read on a mobile device LOL

 

[TopherSho]

Dang all that quoting makes it hard to read on a mobile device LOL

No kidding.  I need to get taptotalk installed.. but it freaks me out put my creds

 

[polskifacet]

Another day with no info from LMS. I'm confused why they don't want to simply try and change the values AJP suggested so we can all be done with this. Maybe all of you guys need to start calling LMS and asking what the status is lol.

 

[ZSHO]

Welcome back Adam!. How was your vacation?
I will try to contact them for ya but remember there are so many variables to consider in this situation. Z

 

[polskifacet]

Welcome back Adam!. How was your vacation?
I will try to contact them for ya but remember there are so many variables to consider in this situation. Z

It has come down to tuning around my issue. I wish they could just do it as what has to be done has been stated by Brad. If LMS doesn't have confidence that they can find the issue with my car in a timely manner, what choice do I have?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Waiting on Andy to call me back should be today honoring his 48 hour call return policy. Also left Anthony an voicemail, figured I give Ethan a break, I'm sure he hates me by now lol.

I don't hate you, I hate very few things in this world, bad piergoies and crappy fair food are about it. If I had the ability/knowledge to go in and change the scalars myself, I would.
I'm beyond the point of achieving anything and the fate lies solely in the hands of the tuning department and their choices or discretion's. I have been told before
that they would prefer to work around it in that way because they consider it cutting corners and would like to avoid that at all costs. With that said, I want to clarify that that is in no way a slight towards AJP as he was purely trying to see what he could to to correct the behavior of the vehicle with what was available. I apologize if the previous statement came across as seeming dickish, I did not intend for that to be the effect. ZSHO, I appreciate the continued diligence on your end but much like myself, Anthony is tapped out on what he has the ability to do, and the emails get rerouted to me, which in turn get listed over to tuning. Adam, I will respond to your most recent email shortly.

Thank you.

 

[polskifacet]

I have been told before that they would prefer to work around it in that way because they consider it cutting corners and would like to avoid that at all costs.

I appreciate your response. I also am not one to cut corners but in this case how much more time/money does Livernois and myself have to spend on this issue. My trip there was no way free for either side. I would love to fix it correctly but I have checked everything suggested and can't find any hint of anything wrong. If you guys want the car again and pledge to fix it then F it lets do it. Otherwise can we work around it at least for now because I can not use the tune so what did I buy it for?

 

[ajpturbo]

I think people have the wrong idea on how i got the fuel pressure stabilized

I did not cut corners or do a "work around".

I simply used "stock" throttle settings that  ford uses for throttle control for torque management.

Normally i try to make the throttle more closely follow pedal inputs to give the car more response. But that can allow for more boost spikes that in your case lowers fuel pressure that your fuel system can't seem to recover from for some unknown reason.

Polski im not sure why you were hell bent on using the lms tune when you already had a tune with fixed symptoms and probably a good deal on the used device you had but anyway...

All i had to do was use stock settings for:
Wop=wot start
Wop=wot end

Ask lms to give it a shot.

 

[polskifacet]

I paid them for the tune. LMS said that they would fix this issue so I plan to hold them to it. I wish to find the root cause for my own sanity and the curiosity of the community.

Your tune is legit but using it means that I have given in. That's not how I work man, I take the harder path if that's what makes me learn more. I understand that LMS has to keep the doors open but if it were my company it would kill me to not know whats causing a car with my tune to run incorrectly. Maybe im expecting too much but I am going to keep pushing, lets see what happens.

Maybe if I'm in LMS's good graces, they will invite me over there again and we can test out one of their pumps on my car?!?!

 

[ajpturbo]

I get it....but i think at this point because you are causing your own grief out of stubbornness...i think it puts livernois in a tough spot...they dont know whats wrong but i think its safe to say its not the tune thats the problem so its kind of out of their hands.

If i was them id just give your money back that way they arent in a position of not delivering on their word...the device doesnt cost them that much at their cost so its a drop in the bucket to let you keep it amd better publicity for them...i would just want to wash my hands of you...so if you get money back there is no foul

I feel your pain and really dont care if livernois looks good or bad but it seems they went above and beyond already but if your car is the problem to say that you are holding them to finding the solution just because you paid them seems like a tough stance..thats why id give your money back...businesses hate doing that but if one customer gets a free device out of 1000 whats the big deal and i think they woukd look better in the end for doing that

Just my take

 

[polskifacet]

I'm only holding them to what they said in this thread. They could give me my money back yes but I assume (and hope) they have pride in what they are doing and don't want to just wash their hands of a challenge. They can also take your advice which is probably the quickest way to lower the tension so I can use their tune with piece of mind of having full fuel pressure. If they do adjust the tune for now and still want to diagnose my car, I will honor their request. As I have offered them before, I am willing to compensate a reasonable/agreed amount if that would expedite solving the issue. There are a few options from LMS's side and this thread would be completely different if there was a game plan. They could charge me a deposit and send me a pump that i could log with etc and see what happens, I am sure they have a beta model that I could borrow.

 

[lamrith]

I'm only holding them to what they said in this thread. They could give me my money back yes but I assume (and hope) they have pride in what they are doing and don't want to just wash their hands of a challenge.

There comes a point however in every business transaction were either party can (AND SHOULD) come to the decision that further hassle for either party is not in either parties best interest.  At that point if a vendor is willing to credit the customer in full, that is a sign of true professionalism and top notch customer service.  No company can make every single customer happy, it is a statistical impossibility.  But how they work with those problem situations shows a companies true values.  Pride is why they have not just "patch worked" a tune together for you outside of their normal parameters.  They have certain standards they have set for every tune and are unwilling to waver on that.  Crediting a customer $ is a sign of pride in their work.

This has been a long duration of back and forth for both of you.  And expensive for both parties.  Any amount of profit LMS may have made normally on a tune is long gone.  You as the consumer also have been inconvenienced significantly, how far should they push or pull you along before they step back and says it is best for both to part ways?  To me, with the price of tunes on the market, you have both gone above and beyond to get it dialed in.  If I were in your shoes I would throw in the towel on an LMS tune and go with what has already been shown to work.

 

[polskifacet]

I will accept however LMS decides to proceed. I do hate being dragged along the most out of all of this.

 

[polskifacet]

I slept on it and have no desire to give up. If LMS is willing to lend me (maybe leading up to me buying it) a pump to see how it reacts and if the retune for it exhibits the same issue.

I don't need this solved by LMS this second, if there is a plan then I'm good and will follow up based on that plan instead of calling every day etc.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

I slept on it and have no desire to give up. If LMS is willing to lend me (maybe leading up to me buying it) a pump to see how it reacts and if the retune for it exhibits the same issue.

I don't need this solved by LMS this second, if there is a plan then I'm good and will follow up based on that plan instead of calling every day etc.

Honestly, if your fuel pressure is as bad as your logs are showing, and your considering replacing your HPFP to verify.. I would be more than happy to send you my spare to test with... free of charge.. just ship it back...

Reason is, even if you get a bigger pump, that maybe just masking the actual issue.. if you are OK with that, then cool. If you want to try the bigger pump just to see if your pump is bad, like I said, shoot me your address and you will have one to test with. Takes 5 minutes to switch out...

I agree with AJP on this one.. you have two of the better tuners for the SHO saying there is some external issue... holding LMS to the fire not only puts them in a tough spot but makes you look bad as well... given the information already provided in this thread. Tough words to hear, but not sure what resolution you are looking for? LMS clearly cannot find it and AJP cannot figure out via tuning what exactly is going on...  I mean... short of replacing the entire fuel system who knows? Rails, injectors, regulators, pumps, lines... 

I love my SHO, however, if I was in your shoes, and wanted a tuneable car that wasn't going to cost me an arm and leg to get to a tuneable state... I might just cut bate and get something else.. maybe taking the hit on a trade in would be cheaper than replacing parts in hopes that you might stumble across a solution?

let me know about the pump...