High boost at part throttle-inducing knock

[lamrith]

What do you mean move that knock cyl to another cyl?

Yes, it can be tuned with knock per cylinder. But global knock is safer, because it pulls timing across the board. So the idea here was to begin with global timing, watch data as he makes changes, and when data looks safer switch to cylinder knock.

I'm logging knock per cylinder on the OEM calibration, and that's most of what I've discussed here.

I'm not entirely sure it's isolated to one cylinder. Sometimes when I hear my knock sounds all 6 cylinders drop to a negative KR.

The data looks much better with the tune I have than OEM. My main concern was for him to help me determine if it is a programming issue, a hard parts issue, or an electronic issue. Which is still to be determined. As far as I know it *should* run fine on the stock tune.

I only mentioned the bit about his tune to say he was able to force better afr numbers. So does that mean anything useful?

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I meant moving the knock sensor to another cylinder.  I do not think that will really do much other than verify that the sensors are good and you have an issue with #6, but always nice to completely isolate the issue...

I have no idea who is doing your tuning, and am not sure if all tuners can (or will) use per cylinder KR.  I was just mentioning AJP as and option to consider as I am pretty sure he does and thought it might help in your case.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

A random misfire is no big deal and won't trigger a cell.

The obd troubleshooting manuals will tell you the threshold you need to breach to cause a cel.

Just search for them I'm at work or id grab them for you. I'm in and out today as I have minutes to spare.

No idea on the misfire knock question.

 

[ajpturbo]

Just a quick message but your afr is normal...fuel enrichment isnt normally commanded until about 90% pedal...the ecoboost pistons in conjunction with Direct injection is designed to suppress preignition

Ford actually did some cool things with piston design to aid in that

Its hard for me to imagine you are getting real knock since you say your knock sensors are not pegged...if you are hearing real knock they should be pulling the max amount of spark they are allowed and that still isnt enough for some reason

It sounds like you are trying to fix your problem by tuning...the oem tune should not be your problem...you are talking about one of the best selling cars in america lol....if the tune does help though that still doesnt mean you fixed anything....i wonder if you have a valvetrain problem or internal engine problem....i can tell your frustrated...i would maybe try to blow the motor if you have warranty which i think you do

You mentioned you had meth?...how hard have you ran the truck to this point?....im kinda baffled by your situation honestly

 

[SHOdded]

I guess then we should go back to basics and check compression maybe?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Can you add spark source to your config file?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

If I'm not mistaken it's on there.  I checked it off anyway. I'll double check the config file. I thought I checked off spark source, fuel source, and torque source.

What does spark source tell me?

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In the livelink tool list, your will find codes for torque source, spark source, etc.

Spark source tells you which spark table you are in real time.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Do you know what map is reading in? It looks way different than mine.

On a side note, I feel like a complete moron. Did everyone else know you could have multiple instances of livelink open?

That makes it super convenient to compare logs.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

It should be in kpa. Been a long time since I paid that any attention, it is the default value. I think I used to read something like 250-300 kpa? Once I had a pid for boost in psi available I never looked back. Lol

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You also have some strange torque source values that aren't even listed.

Something is off with your MAP values. Maybe switch it back to the pid?

Does your tuner mess with part throttle tables?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

That is a stock log.

You want me to switch map from dmr to pid?

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Not sure, I'm wondering if the DMR is subtracting baro automagically?

Still that puts you at less that 9psi on that log.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Yeah. I'm at much more than that. Haha

I hate that. That log was a good representation of the kr I'm seeing in cylinder 6. I hope I can replicate it.

Anything else that needs to be changed? Anything I have that I can remove, and I'll add each map option?

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I would like to see AJP's config recommendations along with...

Flywheel torque
Inferred exhaust valve temp
Cat temp
vehicle acceleration rate


Not a necessity just how I'm used to looking at the data.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I added ajps requested stuff to the best of my ability. Whatever isn't right, I'm going to need some guidance as to what isn't right and what else some of the items may be called. Lol

A lot of the data has completely different names in live link and I inferred the best I could. I built that as close to the list AJP gave me as possible. I can also post screenshots of the data I have available, but that would require a lot of screenshots. 416 possible items.

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Yeah, it can get confusing and I've had to use a lot of trial and error.

What's even more aggravating is many of my config files with validated pids fail to load properly and I've yet to figure out why.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Torrie was crazy about some dmrs. That's all he wanted if available. Do you all prefer pids?

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Not necessarily DMRs will be the fastest but pids are a good fallback if the units can't be determined or weird values pop up which I have seen happen even with validation.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I swear there is no pid for commanded afr.

Also, what am I looking for when reading fuel trims? Both short and long term. What do the numbers tell me?

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Both of what you are looking for is under the fuel header and they are both PIDS, not DMR's

You want Lambse bank 1 and 2

For trims you want the pids... (I haven't messed with the DMRs for LTFT because there are 16 and I haven't tested them)

long term fuel trim bank 1
long term fuel trim bank 2
short term fuel trim bank 1
short term fuel trim bank 1

Trims will tell you if the ECM is adding or subtracting fuel.

I'd also add OAR Octane Adjust Ratio....this can tell you about fuel quality and can tell you if your tune is too aggressive for the fuel you are running. That one is a PID under miscellaneous.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Are you selecting the "all" tab?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Top left.....

The box with the check is what has been currently selected for the config file.

All is all of the pids, all types....

The last three are broken down by types which doesn't really work for me anymore

 

[TopherSho]

find some pics of OEM piston tops for that block .. see if the pattern is normal ?

 

[SHOdded]

weird!!!

 

[TopherSho]

I'm really really really hoping it's just some funny shadows and maybe a burr or something​. It doesn't​ smoke. But some of my engine building friends aren't too optimistic that that isn't what it looks to be to me.

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the shape of it is too symmetrical.  i would scope another cylinder.  also get a RGB LED on a wire and feed it in there 1st to put some light in the cylinder and then scope it higher up to see more of the top.

 

[TopherSho]

Got it.  no i did not watch the vid,  sorry.  I will take a gander ..

 

[TopherSho]

Call me crazy but at 2:08-2:10 there looks to be something protruding above the cylinder along the cylinder wall.  as for the barb .. i cant QUITE tell but it "glints" differently.

not to hit the panic button.  but to be frank.  this looks like debris in the cylinder,  that barb and hunk of whatever at 2:08 makes me think something made it through the turbine at a high rate of speed. but that's my tinfoil crack pot theory.

I'd pull the heads at this point. we can see physical things in the cylinders that we should not see.

this is a used rig?  any chance this was ran on pure e85?  there was a lot of oxidation in the cylinders as well.