Interesting Video Warning on Ethanol Use

[FUSIONEB]

Long time lurker, but for some reason, I can't view posts any longer without having created an account.

I found this YouTube video interesting on warnings of using Ethanol in today's vehicles

http://youtu.be/ceW9Nc1hVHU

 

[DJE624]

Welcome!  Glad you signed up! 

 

[4DRHTRD]

Do some research on that, I don't believe it will do damage to your motor for a minute.

 

[BiGMaC]

Welcome Aboard FusionEB!!
Glad to have you here!
:WELCOME:

Interesting video that should provoke thought as we mod... and as far as the fuel separating, I'd simply add a recirculating fuel pump system to keep it mixed..  It is interesting that the warning (unsure on the warranty voiding) is for pre'12 vehicles.

I lean toward what 4DR said.  First, Ethanol is NOT corrosive... Geez, we drink it...(sometimes too much, LOL).  It is drying, which can be a double edged sword... It get the water out of your fuel system, but it is possible that manufacturers are using cheap seals and gaskets that fail if dried.  The ethanol does not have the lubricity of gasoline, but neither are like diesel and we do have pretty sophisticated oiling systems these days..

As far as detonation, which can ruin engines.... I'd like to see the autos and claims.  The ECM in them must be pretty bad... It's supposed to sense the conditions (regardless of fuel) and prevent damage at least in the Ford EB engines, and will shut you down to prevent damage. There are a number of threads here with that discussion.. usually WOT at high rpm near the top of second gear in the SHO.... unrelated to fuel type though.

4DR ran E85 in a high WHP (600+) 2011 Flex 3.5EB.. got more power from it, raced the car (hard use), and had no problems.

In Arizona they add 10% ethanol to all grades of gasoline in the winter anyway... it's right on the pump and you don't have a choice.  In the last 37 years I have driven Ford in Arizona without a hitch...trucks, cars, crossovers

I'll certainly keep watching the issue, but I'm far from convinced.

I believe other factors are at play in the mix.. and one is surely the desire to shirk warranty responsibilities.

Sorry about the rant.. And again, WELCOME!

 

[bpd1151]

Welcome aboard EBPF! :hi: :newbie:

Enjoy all of the info posted here thus far!

Lots of great members here, as well as vendors with outstanding products to help you enjoy your EB power plant!

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[crash712us]

Here what I know and deals with methanol from RC planes and cars. Engines that are not properly ran with after run oils. Will rust and corrode, with 2 strokes your crank and bearings that will rust. But more expensive 4 strokes the valve train will totally rust out and have seen some bad examples of. While don't fully understand why ethanol is label as a corrosive. But this is my personal experience with small engines that run on as much as 80-90% methanol.


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[Josephm]

Lobbying at its finest... Good job oil industry.

 

[BiGMaC]

Here what I know and deals with methanol from RC planes and cars. Engines that are not properly ran with after run oils. Will rust and corrode, with 2 strokes your crank and bearings that will rust. But more expensive 4 strokes the valve train will totally rust out and have seen some bad examples of. While don't fully understand why ethanol is label as a corrosive. But this is my personal experience with small engines that run on as much as 80-90% methanol.

So true!  I believe the alcohol (ethanol or methanol) are good enough organic solvents to wash all the lubrication out.... hence the after-oil use.  The corrosion likely just happens because of the 21% oxygen in the air... Oxygen is corrosive (oxidation = rust), especially bare ferrous metal.... and over time even aluminum.

 

[mjhpadi]

Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....

 

[BiGMaC]

Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....

The vapors displace oxygen and bind moisture (so no rust)..... beyond stabilizing the gas so it doesn't turn to/leave shellac. Those same vapors prevent evaporation.  When the more volatile hydrocarbons can easily evaporate (mix with air by turning to gaseous state) the gum is what is left..... all can be good, but I'm surprised that Sta-Bil is just now using the first point above as marketing. 
Learned all this junk while operating a gas plant for Houston Natural Gas for 4 years getting through college.... a trillion cubic feet at 800psi/day processed.  We dissolved it in lean oil and cycled 750,000 gal/10 min from +500 to -150 degrees... couldn't have water or oxygen in there!

BTW.. my youngest son was at BJ.. He drove some nice cars pretty hard... got yelled at for drifting the C7!  LOL

 

[crash712us]

Chris, I was under the understanding that RC engines ran on a nitro/methanol blend being mostly nitromethane.  It sure smells like nitro when they are running, although admittedly I am not really knowledgable on the mixture of the RC fuel.  Also I find it kinda funny that all weekend on Barrett-Jackson they were running Sta-Bil ads pushing their new 360 formula which is supposed to give off vapors that help prevent corrosion in the fuel tanks/systems of cars that use fuel containing methanol....

The little cox's engine run on 85% nitro, the larger run about 15% nitro the rest is methanol and oil.

 

[Joewee3.5]

I put 5gal of e85 in every other tank.  Mixed with 93.  Logs look great and it adds a little timing.  Truck feels peppier. 

 

[IHeartGroceries]

Adding 5 gallons of E85 to 30 gallons of E10 nets you approximately 7.25 gallons of ETOH content, or nearly 21%. Seems like too much to me. It is over oxygenated at that point, with any tune which is designed to operate with E10.

Using ETOH as an octane enhancement is a proven method. However, I think the sweet spot should be around 15% content, as opposed to 20 or more.

Tossing in a gallon or so of E85 into super E10 worked very well for staving off KR for many members of the Mazdaspeed community, and also kept engine parameters from veering out of whack.

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[Needmoreboost]

Adding 5 gallons of E85 to 30 gallons of E10 nets you approximately 7.25 gallons of ETOH content, or nearly 21%. Seems like too much to me. It is over oxygenated at that point, with any tune which is designed to operate with E10.

Using ETOH as an octane enhancement is a proven method. However, I think the sweet spot should be around 15% content, as opposed to 20 or more.

Tossing in a gallon or so of E85 into super E10 worked very well for staving off KR for many members of the Mazdaspeed community, and also kept engine parameters from veering out of whack.

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Agreed.  I used 3 gallons of E85 to make 360/370 on stock turbo, intercooler, and 02 housing on my SRT4 Caliber.  It works when tuned corrrectly.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Ford approves e-15 in all 2013 including ecoboost and hybrid

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/9195/gm-ford-announce-e15-compatibility-with-new-models

I started at 1 gallon e-85 and am now up to 5. The car has made more peak power with every increase (at least torque says so)

I had no change in mileage till I went from 4 to 5, then I dropped from the usual 20 ish mpg to 17.

Still no issue with FRP, hitting 2600-2700 @ WOT.

LTFT on both banks was up near 20% so I backed it down.

 

[redsand]

I've been running E30 my last few tanks with no neg effects.  I would like to tune for it though to get the most out of it.  Actually as of late I get as good of mileage with it as I do with 91e10

 

[crash712us]

Good luck with that. No one will, as the fuel system isn't capable of supporting it.


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[redsand]

Funny thing is Ford has tested the 3.5 eco with E30 so obviously it will and I'm able to run it with no ill effects. I'll see if I can find the article about it and post the link.
The thing I find odd in this whole debate about the fuel system is we have a stout HPFP, the largest GDI injectors Bosch makes but we're out of fuel? How are these other GDI's making more with less?

 

[4DRHTRD]

Here's a cool article on it, kind of based my work off this paper.
http://saefuel.saejournals.org/content/2/1/670.abstract

 

[redsand]

Thanks Mike, here's a link to the study of E10-E30 in the 3.5 eco. I think running a tune for what the E30 adds would help overall the performance/economy. Ive run as high as 16 gallons of E85, when cruising the trims can go a little high but if I stomp on the gas every thing goes where its commanded.

http://papers.sae.org/2013-01-1321/