It might be time to remove LMS from this forum, vote up and let me know
- Thread starter 4DRHTRD
- Start date
Here is my opinion.. I am assisting a former Livernois customer... who paid a boat load for the top of the line package that doesn't involve a motor... and since he has received the car back, it has not run correctly..
The list of CRAP that seems to be poorly put together just never ends.. we are chasing a fueling issue which at this point based on the logs I am suspecting the check valve on the alky kit maybe malfunctioning. I asked where the gain controller was so he can turn the pump off.. he said he doesn't know and that LMS said he should never have to touch it as its a progressive controller and doesn't need adjusting...
He paid $99 for their spark plugs as part of the package, and then another $150 to have them installed... they were gapped at .040!
His alky kit came with two red LEDS... so he has no clue if the pump is actually developing pressure.. and THEY CHARGED HIM SEPARATELY FOR THE LEDS.. THE KIT COMES WITH THEM!
The list continues to go on...
I know he doesn't want to get on the forums.. as I wish he would tell his side of the story so it was first hand..
To the point, its time to move on from them. If you are getting anything beyond a base tune from LMS then they are screwing people left and right. I myself used them off and on for a few years with good success for the most part.. until I wanted turbo's.. then they tried to sell me "Race Oil" at 7 quarts and break in oil at 7 quarts because "The ATP's will burn through several quarts on the dyno.." as Andy told me. I was also told they wouldn't install my EPP down pipes.. they went so far as to say they don't remove the stock downpipes when replacing the turbos... and the list goes on and on and on..
I have attached a copy of the quote I received for the turbo install.... they wouldnt provide line item price.. as their software apparently wouldnt allow it.
Their business practices are garbage.. and they continue to prey on unsuspecting customers. This predatory business model should not be allowed to continue within these forums. And to the fact that forums have a vendor section for them would suggest the forums also promote them.
I am getting tired of trying to help customers who have gotten screwed by them..
The list of CRAP that seems to be poorly put together just never ends.. we are chasing a fueling issue which at this point based on the logs I am suspecting the check valve on the alky kit maybe malfunctioning. I asked where the gain controller was so he can turn the pump off.. he said he doesn't know and that LMS said he should never have to touch it as its a progressive controller and doesn't need adjusting...
He paid $99 for their spark plugs as part of the package, and then another $150 to have them installed... they were gapped at .040!
His alky kit came with two red LEDS... so he has no clue if the pump is actually developing pressure.. and THEY CHARGED HIM SEPARATELY FOR THE LEDS.. THE KIT COMES WITH THEM!
The list continues to go on...
I know he doesn't want to get on the forums.. as I wish he would tell his side of the story so it was first hand..
To the point, its time to move on from them. If you are getting anything beyond a base tune from LMS then they are screwing people left and right. I myself used them off and on for a few years with good success for the most part.. until I wanted turbo's.. then they tried to sell me "Race Oil" at 7 quarts and break in oil at 7 quarts because "The ATP's will burn through several quarts on the dyno.." as Andy told me. I was also told they wouldn't install my EPP down pipes.. they went so far as to say they don't remove the stock downpipes when replacing the turbos... and the list goes on and on and on..
I have attached a copy of the quote I received for the turbo install.... they wouldnt provide line item price.. as their software apparently wouldnt allow it.
Their business practices are garbage.. and they continue to prey on unsuspecting customers. This predatory business model should not be allowed to continue within these forums. And to the fact that forums have a vendor section for them would suggest the forums also promote them.
I am getting tired of trying to help customers who have gotten screwed by them..
Linemonkey
Member
Think about the new owners joining us. When I bought my car I was so proud of it and excited to mod it. Hell, I still am! This forum and the members here were incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. I'm a family man and couldn't afford to blow money on mods that I didn't need or didn't work. I'd hate to see a new owner come in and lose interest or worse yet, their excitement, because they get burned by shady vendors with potentially dangerous products
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Yes. It’s crazy... I have another quote with an additional $1,750 in transport charges for them to come get the car...802SHO said:
I have additional data as well... I could consolidate all my datalogs for their tunes... 2010 and 2016 MY... but to be honest it would be subjective. The only one that is of condemning value is the V11 which has been beat to death....
You like the 5.0 oil filter? Truck plugs? Lol.. it’s crap...
Just for comparison here is the quote from National Speed for GH turbos installed,
Downpipes installed, and 3 dyno pulls. I did pay an extra $75 for a PTU drain/fill at the time too. This shop is highly rated and if you want pictures let me know... they work on and tune cars that LMS would blow a street urchin to get their hands on...
Downpipes installed, and 3 dyno pulls. I did pay an extra $75 for a PTU drain/fill at the time too. This shop is highly rated and if you want pictures let me know... they work on and tune cars that LMS would blow a street urchin to get their hands on...
If I had to vote, I would say to keep them, at least for more options. I’ve never had a problem with their service. They’ve actually customized my fan settings when i wasn’t happy with them. Yes, there was some issues with the v10 and older tunes but the v17 seems to be an big improvement.
When I’ve called, they’ve always answered and I could talk to Anthony himself.
I would say if you datalog go with someone else, but if you you just want a good/ great tune without datalogging go with LMS as with my experience they are pretty good.
LMS has always sent me adjustment tunes within 1 business day. Granted I just have bolt ons. They have worked with me on things like the soft shift and I think I was the first to have them adjust the fan settings for 170 thermostat.
I’m not saying they are the best for the track, but they’ve worked with me for so called canned tunes.
The V17 seems to be a huge improvement with downshifting and just steady acceleration. Yes, 1-2 shift sometimes at WOT seems like the transmission Is shuttering or slipping but is still accelerates like crazy and I don’t hit the ref limiter.
My mods are:
Iridium spark plugs one step colder st 0.028
MSD ignition coils on plug
170 degree Thermostat
Drop In K&N air filter
3 Bar MAP sensor
PPE Cat downpipes
Corsa Catback Exhaust
LMS V17
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When I’ve called, they’ve always answered and I could talk to Anthony himself.
I would say if you datalog go with someone else, but if you you just want a good/ great tune without datalogging go with LMS as with my experience they are pretty good.
LMS has always sent me adjustment tunes within 1 business day. Granted I just have bolt ons. They have worked with me on things like the soft shift and I think I was the first to have them adjust the fan settings for 170 thermostat.
I’m not saying they are the best for the track, but they’ve worked with me for so called canned tunes.
The V17 seems to be a huge improvement with downshifting and just steady acceleration. Yes, 1-2 shift sometimes at WOT seems like the transmission Is shuttering or slipping but is still accelerates like crazy and I don’t hit the ref limiter.
My mods are:
Iridium spark plugs one step colder st 0.028
MSD ignition coils on plug
170 degree Thermostat
Drop In K&N air filter
3 Bar MAP sensor
PPE Cat downpipes
Corsa Catback Exhaust
LMS V17
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I'm going to go ahead and close the thread and put my thoughts here.
You can read through my various interactions with LMS over the years including the great E85 debates back in 2013 when I started using it and they claimed that ethanol wasn't a viable option. I also called them on having a single 91 octane tune across the country, 91 octane tunes for AZ cars won't work the same as a 91 octane tune from the southeast due to temps and the crap California gas we have here, yes 91 octane from California is WAY worse than 91 octane from Texas.
My company literally started by working with PPE to make a downpipe that wasn't super expensive (at the time) and that could actually pass all emissions readiness checks. The competition caused LMS to immediately drop their prices to match the new lows, over the years the prices have slowly gone up. I don't really compete with them, I sell my charge pipes (which I've heard repeatedly that they have said not to purchase) and I guess now with my cold air it competes with their Airaid rebranded intake.
Being 100% transparent they have sent me a tuner back in the day and I used it on one of the wife's trucks for a bit. Wasn't an amazing tune but it was a off the shelf box tune.
The concerning part is that they have so many issues and such high prices with people who bring their cars to them but if people are willing to pay that and aren't able to find other resources then so be it.
All that being said with BPD Mike's new position on LMS, I'm curious if he's willing to talk about the scenario where he was a moderator on this forum with Dave (rembmered it) and them working behind the scenes specifically to promote LMS to new members via PMs back in the day and how that all played out with them, that is the main reason why I really don't like LMS and causes me concern. Dave literally went to work for them later as a sales guy....
These items are out in the open for people to see and refer to, the thread will be locked but not deleted and can be referred to by various people as a resource for why not to use them.
Remember this was never a tuner comparison thread for performance, this was a why is there issues with big builds and be aware to our members thread.
I'll leave this open for comments for the next 48 hours then I'll close it permanently
Mike
You can read through my various interactions with LMS over the years including the great E85 debates back in 2013 when I started using it and they claimed that ethanol wasn't a viable option. I also called them on having a single 91 octane tune across the country, 91 octane tunes for AZ cars won't work the same as a 91 octane tune from the southeast due to temps and the crap California gas we have here, yes 91 octane from California is WAY worse than 91 octane from Texas.
My company literally started by working with PPE to make a downpipe that wasn't super expensive (at the time) and that could actually pass all emissions readiness checks. The competition caused LMS to immediately drop their prices to match the new lows, over the years the prices have slowly gone up. I don't really compete with them, I sell my charge pipes (which I've heard repeatedly that they have said not to purchase) and I guess now with my cold air it competes with their Airaid rebranded intake.
Being 100% transparent they have sent me a tuner back in the day and I used it on one of the wife's trucks for a bit. Wasn't an amazing tune but it was a off the shelf box tune.
The concerning part is that they have so many issues and such high prices with people who bring their cars to them but if people are willing to pay that and aren't able to find other resources then so be it.
All that being said with BPD Mike's new position on LMS, I'm curious if he's willing to talk about the scenario where he was a moderator on this forum with Dave (rembmered it) and them working behind the scenes specifically to promote LMS to new members via PMs back in the day and how that all played out with them, that is the main reason why I really don't like LMS and causes me concern. Dave literally went to work for them later as a sales guy....
These items are out in the open for people to see and refer to, the thread will be locked but not deleted and can be referred to by various people as a resource for why not to use them.
Remember this was never a tuner comparison thread for performance, this was a why is there issues with big builds and be aware to our members thread.
I'll leave this open for comments for the next 48 hours then I'll close it permanently
Mike
So what happens now? Even V17 from LMS is being data logged and there are still shifting problems.
How much time has this "state of the art tuning company" with insight to Ford directly had to fix this? How many threads have been made about shifting issues directly for how many years?
I have never had these issues with any of my tunes, with or without traction on. Even on a base tune.
Does LMS actually care? Are they ignorant? Are they just willingly being stupid? I don't understand.
How much time has this "state of the art tuning company" with insight to Ford directly had to fix this? How many threads have been made about shifting issues directly for how many years?
I have never had these issues with any of my tunes, with or without traction on. Even on a base tune.
Does LMS actually care? Are they ignorant? Are they just willingly being stupid? I don't understand.
StinkinLinkin13
New member
In my opinion our transmission thermostat opens way too late and doesn't flow enough causing high trans temps and possibly pressure. I know in my case removing the thermostat resolved my harsh shifting 100%. 99 degrees already down here. I loved my shifts on my tune. Best yet.
Also clearing transmission adaptive tables helps. After a while the adaptives start "fighting" the custom tune shifts...
Also clearing transmission adaptive tables helps. After a while the adaptives start "fighting" the custom tune shifts...