JLT Oil Separator

I'd like to add that any cleaning system you use, a motor oil/filter change within 500 miles is a MUST.  A second change in 1,000 miles or so is also very helpful per user experiences I have read on other forums.  Maybe read up on AutoRx instructions on how to use their system.  They also suggest replacing the PCV valve.

http://www.auto-rx.com/faqs-eng.shtml
 
Tracey.... no argument on the lack of full system cleaning... Or on the idea of not letting deposits build up before using an upper system cleaner.  My post is not intended  to suggest a substitute for the catch can.... which is likely the solution that BG mentions in the article.  But... both of us must trust the boroscope pics in the article.  Again it is not the best solution... but the article is still one with multiple points to ponder.
http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/

Tuner Boost said:
BiGMaC said:
SHOdded said:
Problem is you have a GDI engine, and a TC one at that.  So any cleaner you add to the fuel only gets to the injectors and the combustion chamber.  You miss cleaning the intake tract, the intake valves, the turbo system, you get the picture. 

Point well taken Manu  :beer2: ... No fuel additive cleans the turbos, CAC and TB,  ....but there are some gains/cleaning of all components in direct contact with the combustion chamber with BG44 documented in the BG testing over a 61K time period in a 2011 SHO including the intake valves  :thumb:  ... It's here: http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/ and dyno evidence of restored HP and TQ... Just as FYI


On todays DI engines there is actually zero effect from BG (which I like and use in Port injection engines) as no where in the entire fuel and combustion chamber does it ever contact any area but the piston tops to prevent any of this. Even though they did the most long term test, it is physically impossible for it to even keep injectors clean as they are operating at 2,000 plus PSI vs the old 45-55 PSI when the injectors would build up deposits over time. What they DID improve was doing an upper induction cleaning to help and that will result in removing some of the deposits resulting in increased power.....but that is dealing with the issue AFTER the deposits form. Best to prevent them from the start, and only a can that stops all the oil mist and gunk can do that. A JLT or other can WILL help slow the formation, so never a waste to use a can that only catches part of the mix....but only a can that catches all will prevent it, and we have the RX challenge open to any can on the market.

Here are good illustrations showing:

This is a port injection system showing how the valves were constantly showered with fuel spray from the injector, and top tier fuels (shell, mobil, etc. ) with detergent additives and other cleaners added to the fuel tank:

Portinjectioncutaway_zps9ce9e1db.jpg


And here is direct injection. As you can see, no top tier fuel, no additive will ever touch the valves:

Directinjectioncutaway_zpsbecffb3e.jpg


And further, here are pictures of a LS1 head from a 98 vette with 140k miles on it and just look, not a spec of deposits anywhere the fuel spray made contact:

DSCN0661_zpsa58d6d74.jpg

DSCN0662_zpsffbb3f93.jpg

DSCN0663_zpsd8b69262.jpg

DSCN0665_zps6c3f85b5.jpg



Now here is a 2014 DI engine with 3200 miles on it...look close, the deposits are already forming, and the valve stem on the pic with it open shows the abrasive particles already begining to cause wear (and the guide will wear many times faster due to the material and hardness):

C7May10141547cylinder_1_zps75550081.jpg

C7LT1May10141746cylinder_6_zps70f0e8d1.jpg


Now, using an upper induction cleaning is fine a few times, but be aware that every time these hard deposits are broken loose some are forced between the piston and cylinder wall causing scouring (scratches) and that is NOT good, so use a BG or SeaFoam rarely.
 
Sho, glad you pointed that out!!! Can't tell you how many rod bearing failures after an upper induction cleaning that did NOT do the oil changes!  Just imagine what enters the oil during the process. Good catch.

Mac, totally agree with you.  The test is one of the most thorough I have seen and the comments as they watched the coking build and performance deteriorate are accurate. And the power was restored from the regular cleanings as well.

And these guys new exactly what they were doing.  Anyone that has had a proper BG treatment that had a good amount of miles on a DI engine can attest the difference is night and day better.

:thumbsup:

 
Here is the latest results of independent testing the RX can with others.  We see the same results with JLT and Moroso:

Test Results

- I'll summarize the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

Phase 2 Test Results
- The Weather has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

- Driving has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

- What they caught this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.
The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.
The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.
The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

- Phase 2 Totals:
RX - 35.5cc
UPR - 1.75cc

- Other tidbits include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that.



We urge all to do the test in reverse as well to be fair and accurate.
 
My JLT works and does its Job..I see about 1/2 tablespoon @ 4-5000k's in the colder month's and not much during the Summer. I run a S&B breather in the front.
 
Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
 
The Bone said:
Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
That isn't accurate. Under boost, PCV operation stops and and pressure is evacuated out the clean side right into the front turbo inlet.
 
FoMoCoSHO said:
The Bone said:
Oil cant get to the turbos because they are upstream of the PVC valve. The amount of oil they will catch is minimal but may be worth the install. I to am curious as to how much you will catch. They have them on GT500's and they do catch some oil but it seems to be very little. It all depends on how you drive the car. if you are on the pipe all the time than you may see some oil but Hard to see how oil will get in a intake system with the positive pressure in the intake produced by the turbos. I 6think this only occurs during normal driving when the motor is producing vacuum.
That isn't accurate. Under boost, PCV operation stops and and pressure is evacuated out the clean side right into the front turbo inlet.

This is true!  Just look at the tubing.  If your not VTA the compressed oil vapor is also returned to the turbo intake tubes.
 
FPO said:
I would say my jlt catch can works...

I cleaned it  15 days  ago
about 10 ml of oil

E2BE7C0E-561C-483C-9BE3-9002A8FD9E22.jpg

How long was the time interval between emptying out? Im thinking about getting the JLT catch can (ease of installation and cheaper) but I wanna know just how effective it is. My car is now over 90,000 miles and want to have it last till at least 150,000.  :x:
 
The JLT separator on my 4.6L 3V V8 Mustang GT has almost gotten completely filled in under 2000 miles. It depends on how you drive it.
 
Has anyone installed their new 3.0 separator? I noticed they used Air Brake hose, with the pin holes that allow moisture to escape. This seems to cause excessive fuel vapors to seep through the hose, into the engine compartment, and go through the HVAC system. Their separator from last year used the Ford nylon stiff hose (at least for my Mustang) which is the OEM hose PCV/vapor/fuel systems.
 
metroplex said:
Has anyone installed their new 3.0 separator? I noticed they used Air Brake hose, with the pin holes that allow moisture to escape. This seems to cause excessive fuel vapors to seep through the hose, into the engine compartment, and go through the HVAC system. Their separator from last year used the Ford nylon stiff hose (at least for my Mustang) which is the OEM hose PCV/vapor/fuel systems.

I used Gates 1/2" PCV hose for mine. No pin holes. I don't notice any smell.


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MiWiAu said:
metroplex said:
Has anyone installed their new 3.0 separator? I noticed they used Air Brake hose, with the pin holes that allow moisture to escape. This seems to cause excessive fuel vapors to seep through the hose, into the engine compartment, and go through the HVAC system. Their separator from last year used the Ford nylon stiff hose (at least for my Mustang) which is the OEM hose PCV/vapor/fuel systems.

I used Gates 1/2" PCV hose for mine. No pin holes. I don't notice any smell. This is an RX can.

I got extra Gates hose from my local NAPA. Maybe you could switch out your hose?


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MiWiAu said:
metroplex said:
Has anyone installed their new 3.0 separator? I noticed they used Air Brake hose, with the pin holes that allow moisture to escape. This seems to cause excessive fuel vapors to seep through the hose, into the engine compartment, and go through the HVAC system. Their separator from last year used the Ford nylon stiff hose (at least for my Mustang) which is the OEM hose PCV/vapor/fuel systems.

I used Gates 1/2" PCV hose for mine. No pin holes. I don't notice any smell.


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I see that you're using the Gates hose with your RX can. My JLT separator shipped directly from JLT with the Thermoid Air Brake hoses, and Vinny even sent me photos of their own install on a SHO using the Thermoid Air Brake hoses!

The Thermoid air brake hoses have evenly spaced "pin holes":
http://www.tectran.com/images/pdf/TB_pinpricks.pdf

After reading that, I am really really surprised that someone even decided to use these on an oil separator installed in a PCV environment.
The air brake hoses are almost totally saturated in fuel vapor fumes right now. The wire looms I used to cover the hoses are also saturated in fumes. I thought I had a massive fuel leak in the engine compartment, and even thought my open breather was causing those fumes.

I bought the Gates 1/2" PCV/Fuel hoses from O'Reilly's ready to install. What kind of hose clamps did you use?

I'm going to re-use the stock PCV hose and then run the open breather to see if there's any impact. Then re-install the PCV system.

What kind of oil/moisture is your RX catching? The JLT only catches a lot of fuel vapor, not much (if any) oil at all. I guess the stock factory oil separator works really well.
 
metroplex said:
MiWiAu said:
metroplex said:
Has anyone installed their new 3.0 separator? I noticed they used Air Brake hose, with the pin holes that allow moisture to escape. This seems to cause excessive fuel vapors to seep through the hose, into the engine compartment, and go through the HVAC system. Their separator from last year used the Ford nylon stiff hose (at least for my Mustang) which is the OEM hose PCV/vapor/fuel systems.

I used Gates 1/2" PCV hose for mine. No pin holes. I don't notice any smell.


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I see that you're using the Gates hose with your RX can. My JLT separator shipped directly from JLT with the Thermoid Air Brake hoses, and Vinny even sent me photos of their own install on a SHO using the Thermoid Air Brake hoses!

The Thermoid air brake hoses have evenly spaced "pin holes":
http://www.tectran.com/images/pdf/TB_pinpricks.pdf

After reading that, I am really really surprised that someone even decided to use these on an oil separator installed in a PCV environment.
The air brake hoses are almost totally saturated in fuel vapor fumes right now. The wire looms I used to cover the hoses are also saturated in fumes. I thought I had a massive fuel leak in the engine compartment, and even thought my open breather was causing those fumes.

I bought the Gates 1/2" PCV/Fuel hoses from O'Reilly's ready to install. What kind of hose clamps did you use?

I'm going to re-use the stock PCV hose and then run the open breather to see if there's any impact. Then re-install the PCV system.

What kind of oil/moisture is your RX catching? The JLT only catches a lot of fuel vapor, not much (if any) oil at all. I guess the stock factory oil separator works really well.

I did not use any hose clamps on the actual OCC connections, since they were pretty tight barbed connections, but for the check valves, etc, I just used a standard stainless worm gear hose clamp. For some of the tighter connections, I used a tiny bit of dielectric grease to slide the hose over the connectors.

Seems like the pinholes have the possibility of reducing the overall efficacy of the catch can due to lower vacuum. I don't like the idea of that, personally. Dunno. Just seems weird. Maybe an inquiry to JLT asking why they chose to use that hose?

I just got back from a 1000 mi road trip and got another 13 oz from my drain. Looks like maybe 60% water, and the rest looks like a muddy/milky mixture of something plus a little bit (maybe 5%) of some oily snot. Hard to say the exact composition without an analysis.


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This is another 13oz Rx drain after a recent 1000 mi road trip. Mostly highway miles with very few cooling cycles, in between startups. Engine was warm for most of these miles so warmup condensation would have been minimal.
473d5534e33c46d30d0c082c1be26995.jpg



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That doesn't look like oil to me, maybe some of the milky substance. My Mustang GT (4.6L 3V) has a JLT that collects 100% oil, and I have to empty it out like every 300-500 miles so it is collecting about 1 oz every 1000 miles. I would just pour it back into the engine as there wasn't any moisture or byproduct.

The EcoBoost, from everything I have seen, seems to have an effective oil separator on the valve cover, it's just the condensation/vapor collection is quite a lot - probably from the GTDI fuel dilution? I know the 2016 SHOs got rid of the factory oil separator, I'm wondering if the 2015-up Explorer Sports are the same way.

I've got the new Gates PCV hose ready to go on there to test. You should have smelled my SHO with the JLT-equipped airbrake hoses. The hoses reeked of gasoline, and it was wafting through the engine compartment and into the ventilation ducts. I can't believe an engineer would approve that design.
 
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