JMS Boost Max dyno?

[SuperBrick]

After doing some searching, I have not been able to come across any dyno information on the car 3.5L ecoboost.  Everything I am finding is for the truck.  Do you know where I can find some dyno info on the car based 3.5L with its smaller turbos?

Thanks!

 

[SHOdded]

Might find some data on what you are looking for in this thread:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2059.0.html

 

[SuperBrick]

Looked and didn't see a single mention of the BoostMAX.  Surely there are people out there still running this devise.  I will keep searching.

Thanks!

 

[ZSHO]

Looked and didn't see a single mention of the BoostMAX.  Surely there are people out there still running this devise.  I will keep searching.

Thanks!

SHOdded was kind enough to provide you with some Dyno numbers as you requested above.  Z

 

[SuperBrick]

Sorry, I hope my reply wasn't taken as snarky.  Wasn't supposed to be in the least. I took a look at that link and, unless I completely missed it, there was no reviews of people dynoing with only a JMS BoostMax.  I am not having much luck finding much information on it with the SHO/Flex crowd, only F150.  I am mainly looking for dyno results and if anyone is still running one and if all is still well with the vehicle after a year or two of use. 

I really do appreciate all the input. 

Thanks!

 

[SHOdded]

No probs, I was OK   I know on this forum at least, nobody has stated they are using a BoostMAX, they go straight for the jugular (a tune).  I thought there were some stock dyno charts though that would help establish a baseline +/-, with about 20% AWD drivetrain loss on average from stated crank hp/tq numbers.

 

[J-Will]

My take:
I don't see how this does anything a tune cannot
A tune can do more parameters
A tune higher variables

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[ajpturbo]

My take:
I don't see how this does anything a tune cannot
A tune can do more parameters
A tune higher variables

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It doesnt do anything a tune cant....its for people that dont have or want to spend the money on a tune...i guess its good that a dealer cant see it but who cares

Its a bad idea anyway...i want nothing to do with a device that manipulates signals to and from the ecu...ive had my fill with piggy back devices...some will just have to learn the hard way

 

[SuperBrick]

I agree.  After doing some serious searching last night I have decided it's not worth it.  I don't want to jeopardize my warranty but I also don't want to grenade my motor in the process.  I have not bean able to find a single dyno graph with an AFR plot which tells me something.  This reminds my of zipties/bleeder valves on wastegate vacuum lines in the 90's on an otherwise stock tune.  Just a terrible idea.

I've had the car 3 years now and the biggest warranty I could get was a 5 year bumper to bumper so I will just wait.  Next car will be a CPO Audi S8 that can be had for 10 or 15k more than the Flex was and they are ludicrously fast. 

 

[ajpturbo]

An audi S8 will get smoked by a tuned sho and probably a tuned flex for that matter

What would make you think a jms boost max would grenade your engine?....you must not know anything about jms

 

[J-Will]

I agree.  After doing some serious searching last night I have decided it's not worth it.  I don't want to jeopardize my warranty but I also don't want to grenade my motor in the process.  I have not bean able to find a single dyno graph with an AFR plot which tells me something.  This reminds my of zipties/bleeder valves on wastegate vacuum lines in the 90's on an otherwise stock tune.  Just a terrible idea.

I've had the car 3 years now and the biggest warranty I could get was a 5 year bumper to bumper so I will just wait.  Next car will be a CPO Audi S8 that can be had for 10 or 15k more than the Flex was and they are ludicrously fast.

Its a new product; the EB market is fairly new with small penetration right now.  You probably wont see any results, and if you did they would come from the brand and would be skewed for marketing and probably shouldnt be trusted.

I doubt you'd have to worry about any damage, as I doubt this does too much... and that in there lies the problem.  Its not doing much.  A tune is going to be a more dialed in modification.  Tune has more risk (as mentioned above a tune would alter more variables on more parameters), but also more reward. 

There's a market for these piggyback devices... I dont think our platform is it.  We already have tuner support. 

 

[SuperBrick]

An audi S8 will get smoked by a tuned sho and probably a tuned flex for that matter

What would make you think a jms boost max would grenade your engine?....you must not know anything about jms

The new twin turbo S8's are stupid fast.  They 0-60 in the 3's and the 1/4 in high elevens...stock.  On an APR tune they run 10's...and it's a land yacht.  Although it would remain stock as well. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-audi-s8-test-review

 

[metroplex]

I'm interested in the BoostMax as well. I see a lot of concerns over AFR, but if we look at it holistically, the EcoBoost uses a Wideband O2 sensor, so whatever PE ratio is commanded, it should technically be the same. Someone in another forum mentioned they ran a before/after dyno on a F-150 with BoostMax and the AFR stayed the same. It looks to me like the BoostMax takes in commanded torque via the accelerator pedal, and then tells the ECU a different TIP/MAP reading that forces the ECU to provide more boost (up to 5 psi).

I called Roush-Yates and JMS to see if their BoostMax units were different, and both companies said it is the same product just that Roush Yates added a sticker on their unit. If Roush Yates is putting their name on this product, then it should be good to go. Also a lot of people seemed to report about +2 MPG in fuel economy improvements, so there's a good possibility the BoostMax reduces the amount of boost at normal cruising conditions for better fuel economy.

I see the biggest selling point being that it is simple to install, wouldn't be detected by the dealer, and seems to be backed by Roush-Yates who are the principal engineers behind the Ford GT in IMSA/Tudor racing. Obviously a tune is the best way to go, but it definitely voids the warranty and for the DIY'ers, not many people are willing to give up the "secrets" or people are still experimenting with ways to defeat the torque limiters, or HPTuners/SCT still has a lot of tables locked out or missing.

I thought about datalogging to see the boost changes, but if the MAP/TIP isn't producing accurate figures, then you'll see normal numbers for boost. However, the Turbo Mass Airflow should increase dramatically.

 

[ajpturbo]

Sct doesn have "alot" of tables missing or locked out

There is no reason to defeat a torque limiter to make power...thats creating a myth that if more power is produced then safety features are eliminated

 

[metroplex]

I have noticed that SCT doesn't have access to several switches/tables that are found in HPTuners in some of the other Ford applications, stuff that is minor but frustrating when SCT is supposed to be mostly Ford-biased tuning. For the Ford EcoBoost/Speed Density tuning, I haven't found a single thread that really explains how to tune the system, other than discussions and spreadsheets about the theory (how the ECU translates commanded torque into output) or how no one is going to explain how to get from point A to point B, just leave a bunch of breadcrumbs - or people showing off their engineering degrees.

Back to the topic, I have yet to find any negative reviews of the JMS/Roush Yates BoostMax, other than comments about it being a piggyback system. I'm still searching and researching and not set on any one upgrade path at the moment.

 

[ajpturbo]

I have noticed that SCT doesn't have access to several switches/tables that are found in HPTuners in some of the other Ford applications, stuff that is minor but frustrating when SCT is supposed to be mostly Ford-biased tuning. For the Ford EcoBoost/Speed Density tuning, I haven't found a single thread that really explains how to tune the system, other than discussions and spreadsheets about the theory (how the ECU translates commanded torque into output) or how no one is going to explain how to get from point A to point B, just leave a bunch of breadcrumbs - or people showing off their engineering degrees.

Back to the topic, I have yet to find any negative reviews of the JMS/Roush Yates BoostMax, other than comments about it being a piggyback system. I'm still searching and researching and not set on any one upgrade path at the moment.

Compliments of fomocosho

http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-st-performance/29265-jms-boostmax-controller.html

Its seems like a hack way to get a result...any tuner worth their weight in salt would not prefer that method....everything needs to work in harmony in todays tuning and cars

Youve been searching for awhile...there will always be minor switches and tables missing...but i would not say alot are missing

Have you seen my dyno results?..

You are looking for a set of cliff notes to tune your car..if it was that simple then it wouldnt take people so long to develope good tunes

But it is simple in a way.....set you driver demanded torque tables to what you want, then raise your torque limits to what is appropriate for the new torque that will be delivered.....alot of the things such as fueling is the same as old mustangs

 

[sholxgt]

http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-st-performance/29265-jms-boostmax-controller.html

That gives a good review of the JMS and shows it's downfalls.  One being that the car will try to re-compensate for the piggy back.

Edit: AJP beat me to providing the link AND gave more info.

Here's another good read regarding the JMS with valuable information from someone that sells both custom tunes and the JMS...

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,1930.0.html

 

[metroplex]

Thanks for posting that thread! That's quite interesting to see it set an overboost condition. FWIW I'm familiar with piggyback systems like Power Commander and Bazzaz.

I've run into overboost once on my SS Turbo because I didn't set the Pressure Ratio limiter properly, and for that engine (LNF) I believe if you go over desired boost by more than 3-4 psi for x number of seconds, it sets overboost and goes into limp mode. Luckily I had that happen at the track and not on the street.

 

[metroplex]

You are looking for a set of cliff notes to tune your car..if it was that simple then it wouldnt take people so long to develope good tunes

But it is simple in a way.....set you driver demanded torque tables to what you want, then raise your torque limits to what is appropriate for the new torque that will be delivered.....alot of the things such as fueling is the same as old mustangs

It's been 7 years since EcoBoost debuted, I figured a set of Cliffs Notes would have been made by now. The EcoBoost 3.5L is taking on a different direction with the new 2017 F-150 engine, and there are new Ford GTDI engines coming out like the Lincoln-exclusive 3.0, so I assume the 3.5L EB should have been thoroughly explored by now.

What torque limits are you raising to match the changes in the driver demanded torque table? The speed density airflow model looks very different from older Mustangs, or are you talking about the commanded lambda/base fuel tables?

 

[sholxgt]

I know a lot of the VW GTI guys run piggy back units because VW dealers have started going deeeep into the ECU to determine if the vehicle was EVER flash tuned and then denying warranty claims.  That has many of them concerned and going with piggy backs instead.

In my research, including talking with service managers at the dealership network that my wife works at, I'm not aware of Ford denying warranty for a vehicle that has been brought in with the stock tune loaded.  I'm sure it has happened somewhere, but I have not found record of that.

As long as Ford isn't denying warranty on cars that are brought to them in stock condition, I don't see a good reason to go piggy back instead of custom tune.

Edited to add: VW tuners even reset the flash count to zero when doing the flash back to stock, but the VW ECU still has record of it somewhere.  Tuners have not figured out where.  Maybe Ford's ECU isn't that sophisticated yet?