K&N modifications, can it be improved?

[ShoBoat]

So I have become fond of how the K&N sounds on my SHO. But a recent trip to the strip seems to confirm what some have been saying. It costs HP in real world tests. Drawing hot air from inside the engine bay is not good. So I have been working on a few different ideas and I made a temp mock up using some Boom Mat (thermo shielding) to see if at least can duplicate the stock setup for a true CAI. I will be doing some testing over the next few weeks and hopefully get out to the track with both the stock intake and the modified K&N. At this point I don't have much to loose in trying as the K&N is pretty much useless they way it sits.
Any input from you guys would be helpful. My aim is to draw primarily from the fender and I have sealed the deflector from the engine bay to better direct the air from in front of the rad to the intake. Here are some pics. Keep in mind that it's a bit of a hack at this point and is a work in progress. Cost for improvements at this point is $40.

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[SHODYOU]

Ive considered going to a bigger, open ended S&B filter and coming up with a simple way to cover the top of the "box"

Im sure from everything we've seen here but like you I still like my typhoon. Car runs great and sounds great too.
esp with the open vents in the hood now

 

[BiGMaC]

Here's one thought:  The piping is heat soaked metal and the air is moving relatively slowly so it heats up in the tubing... Also likely les than laminar flow.... Look inside the rubber OEM part from the filter box to the plastic OEM tubing.... You'll find flutes causing the intake air to vortex.

 

[ShoBoat]

Here's one thought:  The piping is heat soaked metal and the air is moving relatively slowly so it heats up in the tubing... Also likely les than laminar flow.... Look inside the rubber OEM part from the filter box to the plastic OEM tubing.... You'll find flutes causing the intake air to vortex.

Interesting BiGMaC, I did some testing last night and the temps performed very well with the modification. Cruising at 30mph or better IAT1 was 1F higher than Ambient when stopped temp would go up but not as quickly as before, and would drop within seconds back to ambient pretty much. After heat soak car took about 5 min of normal driving to return to ambient. Interesting it seems to respond similar to the stock intake. Again after heat soak, under WOT the temp would instantly drop to ambient. So cold air check.

Now here is where it gets really interesting, with the stock intake Torque would report 16.2 psi of boost , with the K&N and the S&B filter only 15.5 psi? I wonder if it's the intake or the filter causing this? I still have the original K&N filter. I'm going to reinstall it and report back.


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[ShoBoat]

One other thing, when I was at the track I noticed that the transmission temps rose to 90c (190f) after 2 runs. And all the intake piping is just above it, stock or not. I wonder if a heat shield would be useful?

 

[BiGMaC]

Here's one thought:  The piping is heat soaked metal and the air is moving relatively slowly so it heats up in the tubing... Also likely les than laminar flow.... Look inside the rubber OEM part from the filter box to the plastic OEM tubing.... You'll find flutes causing the intake air to vortex.

Interesting BiGMaC, I did some testing last night and the temps performed very well with the modification. Cruising at 30mph or better IAT1 was 1F higher than Ambient when stopped temp would go up but not as quickly as before, and would drop within seconds back to ambient pretty much. After heat soak car took about 5 min of normal driving to return to ambient. Interesting it seems to respond similar to the stock intake. Again after heat soak, under WOT the temp would instantly drop to ambient. So cold air check.

Now here is where it gets really interesting, with the stock intake Torque would report 16.2 psi of boost , with the K&N and the S&B filter only 15.5 psi? I wonder if it's the intake or the filter causing this? I still have the original K&N filter. I'm going to reinstall it and report

Interesting on the boost.... If it's cooler air that makes sense.  ECU doesn't add boost when it can get torque without it. Is your tune adjusted for any CAI?

 

[ShoBoat]

Yes it's adjusted for the CAI, true on the boost. But in the past regardless of temp she usually reached 16. And I couldn't replicate that last night. I have outfitted the K&N filter. We will see what happens.


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[ecoboostsho]

Interesting experiment!  I can't wait to see your results.  I'm back to running the stock intake with a K&N drop in but I'm also contemplating making a cover for my Airaid to see if that would offer an improvement as well...

 

[ShoBoat]

Ok so more testing to come, but on a quick drive it looks like the S&B filter might be more restrictive? She reached 16.2 with the K&N. Also felt more responsive with the K&N vs S&B. I am hoping to get out to the track this weekend to try the different setups. I wouldn't mind doing a test vs the Airaid. If I could get my hands on one. I will post a complete set of data later in the week. I also have a call into S&B and see what they have to say.


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[BigPelo]

subscribed

 

[ShoBoat]

Ok spent some time with S&B support today. And interesting they admit that their filter same size as the K&N is more restrictive. I am still working on a solution. They have recommended going bigger than the K&N. My only issue is that it would have been nice to know this before I ordered the one I have. But it looks like they may either refund or send me a larger filter.


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[BiGMaC]

Glad to hear you figured out the filter restriction problem!

Assuming that the 16.2 you referenced is boost, remember that boost at whatever command level is regulated by torque demand.  On the newer LMS tunes we are seeing less boost and more WHP and TQ.  So boost level my only give a reliable delta in back to back testing at the same ambient air and engine temps.

 

[ShoBoat]

Glad to hear you figured out the filter restriction problem!

Assuming that the 16.2 you referenced is boost, remember that boost at whatever command level is regulated by torque demand.  On the newer LMS tunes we are seeing less boost and more WHP and TQ.  So boost level my only give a reliable delta in back to back testing at the same ambient air and engine temps.

Exactly, the tests were done back to back. There is also the old butt dyno. And there was a different between the 3 setups. I plan on completing the mods to the oem intake (heat shield) and K&N CAI this week.
But as of right now the CAI seems to have the best feel to it, throttle response with the K&N filter on it. However the stock box seems to pull better at WOT still.

A few friends are heading out to the track this weekend. I really want to get out there this weekend to try the 3 different filters. The track is the only real way to determine what is working. I will be data logging this time with FORScan and see where that gets me.

 

[BiGMaC]

Agreed!... I'll be really interested I'm your findings SB!  I wish we could get an MDesign CAI to add to the testing. It adds a different concept from K&N or Airaid .

 

[SHODYOU]

im def interested in this... i was trying to replace my K&N filter with an S&B here a few weeks ago but wasnt sure what filter they had that would fit my Typhoon. I called em and gave em K&N part number for cross reference but they never got back to me.

Maybe that was a blessing in disguise, although ive always used S&B filters in my Mustangs. Hell JLT uses S&B exclusively, weird.

 

[panther427]

the SB filters actually filter Better though.

 

[ShoBoat]

the SB filters actually filter Better though.

I'm not disputing that point, they are a much better filter. Even the build is better than K&N. The K&N is a 6 layer and the S&B is an 8 layer filter. Hence why I really wanted to get one in my car, it looks like the surface area is just not enough when going to the S&B (Same size filter as K&N). Which leads me to deduce that the K&N filter might me just enough size. Keep in mind that these are tested on stock EBs and not tuned or modded. The stangs have added capacity built into the specs to ensure if you mod the car the filter will handle it. The HP gains we are seeing after tuning and mods might just be too much for the small filter to handle. It looks like something off a 4 cylinder. The S&B intakes on the stangs are huge in comparison. I believe that the Airiad has a larger filter than the K&N Typhoon by the looks of it. Most of the guys running serious mods seem to be running the Airaid. It would be interesting to find out how much additional flow is generated by say a tuned SHO with DPs and a cat back. Funny how when I started this test I was trying to help cold air and heat soak and found something else lol. S&B has agreed to send me a new replacement filter at no charge which will be 2 inches longer a 1 inch wider. It should give me about 25% more surface area. While I wait for the replacement filter to arrive I will continue with the original tests. If it works I will be sure to post the S&B part number.

In relation to the flow rate, is there an easy way to measure the airflow through the intake? There is no MAF on our cars, so that's out of the question. If we could get a reliable number then we could ensure that we have enough capacity in the filter.

 

[dalum]

I'm really interested in your mods.  I had an airaid first and didn't really like the sound.  I decided to try the k&n because everyone said it sounded so much better but I thought they were nuts, they weren't.  I'm not doing any racing so the higher IAT's aren't a huge problem for me.  That said just knowing it could be better makes me want to seal it off from the engine compartment.

I think something that would help is understanding WHY the k&n sounds better vs stock or airaid.  Is it the metal?  Is the sound coming out of the fender area, from through the back of the hood?  I'm wondering what an airaid would sound like with a pipe out the side into the fender.

 

[ShoBoat]

I'm not sure why, but I assume it's because it's open to the fender and I'm sure the aluminum pipe also helps as you stated above. The mods so far have not impacted the sound so far


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[SRT82ECOBOOST]

The previous owner of my Airraid just cut out a small section towards the driver's side quarter panel and the thing howls while under boost.