Looking to switch to unleashed

[wasinger3000]

I'd much rather have a tune based on data logs and not just a "here you go!" File.

I'm the opposite here. I'd rather the tested, tested, and more tested tunes based on dyno use and great #'s to back it  than a couple hundred dollar handheld. Just preferences in the 2 styles of tuning as we've all stated.

The tuning for corn is a great ? Haven't heard of them into that yet.

It's not the device that dictates the final tune. It's the man behind the computer that is adjusting the parameters according to what he sees from the data log. That is what makes a true custom tune that is far superior in my eyes than a tune that has not been testes on your exact car.

Let's say your car has a less than perfect internals, be it carbon build up on the valves, fuel pump flows less than expected, injector is clogged and so on. When you load that cute little tune from LMS to your car and go for a hot lap without knowing if it's the right fit for your car you are potentially in store for damaged parts right away or even 50k down the road.

Same story now only with unleased tuning, after you load his tune you take it out and do a data log, send it in, and he says something like, hey it looks like your car is a little low on fuel pressure or he notices knock at a certain event so he adjust according to the issues he sees need adjusting.

Make sense?

 

[ShoBoat]

I too am curious, I think I'll pony up and take mine to LMS and get it on the dyno. I am really curious to see if they can adjust the tune for my mod level for my individual car. I was planning on heading that way next month anyway.


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[IHeartGroceries]

My opinion is that peak gains between the two, or at least comparably matched tunes (say, stage 4 LMS vs. a similarly aggressive mapping from Torrie), is not likely to be huge.
That said, and even though TMS claims their tunes not to be "canned", there is still absolutely a conservativeness to any.....canned tune. It's designed to be applied to dozens of different engines, running different gasolines, in different climates, in different elevations, etc..

Even if you're not interested in dappling in ethanol, a custom tune IS better, becasue as already stated, not all engines are created equal, not all climates or conditions are the same, and this is the biggest one - gasoline quality and formulation can be drastically different, region to region, with some being a great deal shittier than others.

But, LMS still does an excellent job, and by all accounts their semi-tailered tuning solutions do a great job. But, a custom tune is just that extra step. And if you want to play with ethanol, as it has been proven here, even without any modifications to the 13+ fuel system, it opens up a new world for an engine tuner.

If you're okay with sticking with reformulated E10 or conversational gas, and aren't interested in data logging and email correspondence and all of that, LMS is a super easy, great tuning solution with excellent, noticeable results. The Men's Warehouse of tunes.

Unleashed can be your tailer.

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[SHOnUup]

I'd much rather have a tune based on data logs and not just a "here you go!" File.

I'm the opposite here. I'd rather the tested, tested, and more tested tunes based on dyno use and great #'s to back it  than a couple hundred dollar handheld. Just preferences in the 2 styles of tuning as we've all stated.

The tuning for corn is a great ? Haven't heard of them into that yet.

It's not the device that dictates the final tune. It's the man behind the computer that is adjusting the parameters according to what he sees from the data log. That is what makes a true custom tune that is far superior in my eyes than a tune that has not been testes on your exact car.

Let's say your car has a less than perfect internals, be it carbon build up on the valves, fuel pump flows less than expected, injector is clogged and so on. When you load that cute little tune from LMS to your car and go for a hot lap without knowing if it's the right fit for your car you are potentially in store for damaged parts right away or even 50k down the road.

Same story now only with unleased tuning, after you load his tune you take it out and do a data log, send it in, and he says something like, hey it looks like your car is a little low on fuel pressure or he notices knock at a certain event so he adjust according to the issues he sees need adjusting.

Make sense?

Good points. As all tuned vehicles should be monitored(a no brainer to me). As I monitor, if I was seeing some noticeable knock or fuel issues I would also call LMS (no weird knock readings and it runs like a raped ape) for different style tune as they have many available.

If tuning a car "not made so equal", wouldn't the tuning be to take away timing and slow the car down. Thus being more of a candidate for not tuning at all?

This is just fun debate type stuff, please don't take it personal as I am still learning the ins and outs of these cars.

To utter earlier phrase, thankfully we have at least 2 great tuners to satisfy all sides of the fence.

 

[wasinger3000]

I'd much rather have a tune based on data logs and not just a "here you go!" File.

I'm the opposite here. I'd rather the tested, tested, and more tested tunes based on dyno use and great #'s to back it  than a couple hundred dollar handheld. Just preferences in the 2 styles of tuning as we've all stated.

The tuning for corn is a great ? Haven't heard of them into that yet.

It's not the device that dictates the final tune. It's the man behind the computer that is adjusting the parameters according to what he sees from the data log. That is what makes a true custom tune that is far superior in my eyes than a tune that has not been testes on your exact car.

Let's say your car has a less than perfect internals, be it carbon build up on the valves, fuel pump flows less than expected, injector is clogged and so on. When you load that cute little tune from LMS to your car and go for a hot lap without knowing if it's the right fit for your car you are potentially in store for damaged parts right away or even 50k down the road.

Same story now only with unleased tuning, after you load his tune you take it out and do a data log, send it in, and he says something like, hey it looks like your car is a little low on fuel pressure or he notices knock at a certain event so he adjust according to the issues he sees need adjusting.

Make sense?

Good points. As all tuned vehicles should be monitored(a no brainer to me). As I monitor, if I was seeing some noticeable knock or fuel issues I would also call LMS (no weird knock readings and it runs like a raped ape) for different style tune as they have many available.

If tuning a car "not made so equal", wouldn't the tuning be to take away timing and slow the car down. Thus being more of a candidate for not tuning at all?

This is just fun debate type stuff, please don't take it personal as I am still learning the ins and outs of these cars.

To utter earlier phrase, thankfully we have at least 2 great tuners to satisfy all sides of the fence.

My examples of less than adequate conditions are just one scenario that a custom tune is beneficial. A more applicable example would have positive power gains. Your tune from LMS does not adjust for your cars specific needs. The car can only adjust for abnormalities to an extent.

I prefer to have my tune built around the data my car provides. Rather than the test car that was run on the dyno for awhile. It's the logical, sensible, and economical choice in my opinion.

Then there is the e30 customization that I have found amazing results from.

I do not belong to anyone's side. I made my choice bases on the options we are given. I went with what I found was best.

 

[ShoBoat]

Ok here is a question, LMS stated that they cannot tune any further 13+ due to fuel limitations. That the XV1 for example must be accompanied my a meth solution. So how come Unleashed can tune for e30? That is has been stated on here that the 13+ cars have more flow capabilities.

I am just trying to get answers, not bashing here OK!


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[wasinger3000]

I don't know why LMS cannot tune for e30...

All I know is my fuel pressure looks excellent on e30 and I make more power than you guys running the latest and greatest from the other guys.

It's time to set the coolaid down and try a different flavor...

 

[IHeartGroceries]

It isn't that LMS fundamentally disagrees with E tuning. They tune for E on Mustangs don't they?

The reasoning they've used here time and time again is fueling limitations on the 3.5 EB platform. Now that there's clear evidence that the 13+ fueling system supports E30 and perhaps beyond, I really don't understand what the deal is...

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[ShoBoat]

I don't know why LMS cannot tune for e30...

All I know is my fuel pressure looks excellent on e30 and I make more power than you guys running the latest and greatest from the other guys.

It's time to set the coolaid down and try a different flavor...

Tuning for E30 doesn't really help me, I can't get anything above E10 here. But I would love to see what yours does on a Dyno.


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[FoMoCoSHO]

I don't know why LMS cannot tune for e30...

All I know is my fuel pressure looks excellent on e30 and I make more power than you guys running the latest and greatest from the other guys.

It's time to set the coolaid down and try a different flavor...

Tuning for E30 doesn't really help me, I can't get anything above E10 here. But I would love to see what yours does on a Dyno.


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New dyno in my area 6-8 weeks.

But my 1/4 stock + e is as quick as some tuned cars.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

It isn't that LMS fundamentally disagrees with E tuning. They tune for E on Mustangs don't they?

The reasoning they've used here time and time again is fueling limitations on the 3.5 EB platform. Now that there's clear evidence that the 13+ fueling system supports E30 and perhaps beyond, I really don't understand what the deal is...

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So.....its enough to fuel BPD' s 700 HP built motor but not some corn?

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

BPD's fueling system is supplemented with Methanol.  And, although he is showing large boost numbers, that is only part of his tunes' equation.  We certainly could tune for Ethanol but choose not to on the Ecoboost.  We have already explained why.  Fueling volume requirements and varying ethanol qualities play a big part in the overall decision.  We also have doubts on how accurate any data logging is.  Nobody has dyno or track tested the Ecoboost as thoroughly as Livernois has.  The results of that testing, as we have said before are proven by countless dyno and track run documentations.  We feel very comfortable with our tunes and our wish is that those that use them will feel comfortable as well as appreciate the gains they produce.  This is our view on tuning matters discussed.

 

[ZSHO]

A little bit off topic here,i know LMS always recomended using BP gasoline for our EB vehicles,lately started using BP and noticed the car running a little bit smoother and more efficient,thank you LMS for the top notch service and tunes.

 

[SHOdded]

My Edge has the BP preferred logo on the fuel cap (don't know if OEM tho).  Exxon works best for it tho, power & mpg wise.

 

[SHOnUup]

A little bit off topic here,i know LMS always recomended using BP gasoline for our EB vehicles,lately started using BP and noticed the car running a little bit smoother and more efficient,thank you LMS for the top notch service and tunes.

BP is the standard it seems...each one I've stopped at had no problem telling me how much they refill tanks and which days.

 

[4DRHTRD]

BPD's fueling system is supplemented with Methanol.  And, although he is showing large boost numbers, that is only part of his tunes' equation.  We certainly could tune for Ethanol but choose not to on the Ecoboost.  We have already explained why.  Fueling volume requirements and varying ethanol qualities play a big part in the overall decision.  We also have doubts on how accurate any data logging is.  Nobody has dyno or track tested the Ecoboost as thoroughly as Livernois has.  The results of that testing, as we have said before are proven by countless dyno and track run documentations.  We feel very comfortable with our tunes and our wish is that those that use them will feel comfortable as well as appreciate the gains they produce.  This is our view on tuning matters discussed.

What do you use to data log that is different that what SCT uses to data log, since you have both systems and use both systems have you done a side by side comparison, same car, same dyno and can you share how the data was different?
Also are you sure you have the most dyno/track testing? I would hazard that Torrie is equal or has dyno'd more cars and worked with more data logs and I'll explain why:
You will only deal with one customer at a time on your dyno  at your shop (mixed in with all the other vehicles you support) vs Torrie will work with multiple people simultaneously each week to do either data log reviews from dynos or live remote data logging. Also unless you've changed I don't believe your own device can do data logs at the track that the customer can do and then send to you vs Torrie works constantly with many people to do data log revisions based off of track logs.
Making these statements are great for marketing but I would hazard not necessarily correct. On the F150 platform I know Erick@LET works almost all day every day reviewing logs, doing tune updates, making revisions and responding to road, track and dyno logs. The other people who tune are constantly reviewing their tunes and working to update them daily and learn daily on this specific platform and as a result are making revision iterations much faster than you guys do.
You make a great "base" tune (since you don't like canned) for many people that is safe based off of your assessment that X tune will work across many different climates, fuel blends etc. The other tuners start with that then work with the customers to modify the tune based off of data logging and review then update accordingly based off of how the car reacts to local conditions and fuel, heck even how the vehicle was built.


More to the base tune point - you make a 91 octane tune but do you make a 91 octane AZ tune and 91 octane CA tune? We have different qualities of gas, some of our stations carry CA gas and we ping mercilessly but if we use local 91 octane gas (local Circle K not associated with Shell) you can run more timing without pinging. I'm sure East coast 91 octane is like gold compared to ours.  Since you don't do specific customer data log tune revisions and don't do state based fuel tunes then you have to make a 91 octane tune that works for the worst of fuel instead of sending a tune, getting feedback from the customer on how the tune is working on their vehicle with that fuel and then making +/- adjustments to timing to accommodate accordingly.

 

[ShoBoat]

Can't knock the logic with your questions Mike. I too am curious, I don't have any issues with my tune at this time but I wonder if there is more to be had. The question that burns for me is why isn't the X4 capable of data logging with accuracy in the 13+ SHO. I have used it on other cars and it seemed to work well. As long as you don't use too many PIDs.


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[4DRHTRD]

Can't knock the logic with your questions Mike. I too am curious, I don't have any issues with my tune at this time but I wonder if there is more to be had. The question that burns for me is why isn't the X4 capable of data logging with accuracy in the 13+ SHO. I have used it on other cars and it seemed to work well. As long as you don't use too many PIDs.


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It's not a matter of the tuner, it's a matter of the interface to the CAN bus and the amount of data it can give a once, aka 56k modem vs 1mb - only so much data can come down at once.

 

[ShoBoat]

^^ right, so is there an issue with the interface on the 13+ cars with the X4?


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[FoMoCoSHO]

^^ right, so is there an issue with the interface on the 13+ cars with the X4?


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No...all of the consumer grade loggers take advantage of the 500k baud connection.