Lowering Shift Points

[4DRHTRD]

Tried the lower shift points tonight, HUGE improvement. I'll be working on the self tuning this week and hope to have some great success (joke intended) with these shift points soon.
Looking forward to what I can do with the car now that I control the tuning as well.

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

Believing in someone else that knows more than you do is also called trust. I have trust with Livernois with all their experience. But at the same time, I admire 4DR that knows a lot about cars, which I don't, for taking it to another level.
That said, I can't blame Livernois for not wanting to go on the E85 route. Maybe one day, but they have a reputation to maintain and cannot afford to ruin it with experimentation. I guess they prefer to stick with what they know and are comfortable with.
So me too I want to say thanks to Mike 4DR for pushing it and thank you to Livernois that have so far been able to provide me with a powerful vehicle that is reliable with no bad surprises.
Cheers guys!

Livernois definitely error on conservative side... Big reputation to protect.  Also, like you said, most of us don't have the knowledge that 4DR has.  Look at my issue... opposite of a lean condition... never even considered that possibility.  E85 changes from season to season in ethanol content, at least in our area.  Also consistency varies based on volume sold.  Personally I worry about E-10 93 octane when the price differential in our area is over 20 cents a gallon more than E-10 91. Ethanol can separate quickly, that's why it is added to fuel at the terminal rather than at the refinery.  Our area ships thousands of rail car tankers full of Ethanol all over the US and probably into Canada. At times we have miles of them sitting on RR sidings.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Believing in someone else's hearsay is just as bad as gossip, when someone else is willing to try it... Thanks 4DR for all the experimenting.

Believing in someone else that knows more than you do is also called trust. I have trust with Livernois with all their experience. But at the same time, I admire 4DR that knows a lot about cars, which I don't, for taking it to another level.
That said, I can't blame Livernois for not wanting to go on the E85 route. Maybe one day, but they have a reputation to maintain and cannot afford to ruin it with experimentation. I guess they prefer to stick with what they know and are comfortable with.
So me too I want to say thanks to Mike 4DR for pushing it and thank you to Livernois that have so far been able to provide me with a powerful vehicle that is reliable with no bad surprises.
Cheers guys!

Livernois definitely error on conservative side... Big reputation to protect.  Also, like you said, most of us don't have the knowledge that 4DR has.  Look at my issue... opposite of a lean condition... never even considered that possibility.  E85 changes from season to season in ethanol content, at least in our area.  Also consistency varies based on volume sold.  Personally I worry about E-10 93 octane when the price differential in our area is over 20 cents a gallon more than E-10 91. Ethanol can separate quickly, that's why it is added to fuel at the terminal rather than at the refinery.  Our area ships thousands of rail car tankers full of Ethanol all over the US and probably into Canada. At times we have miles of them sitting on RR sidings.

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html

I am having no issues with an E-85/93 blend so far. Personally I don't necessarily need to run straight E-85 but i think there is some benefit to being able to run a mix. I'm up to 3 gallons which with the pre-fill up mix of E-8.8 comes to E-13.9, octane is at 94.9

Torque Pro Max wheel torque has gone from the 290 range to the 310 range with one romp hitting 318. I NEVER saw 300 before E-85. Fuel rail pressure is good (2459-2600) along with AFR and lambda, commanded and measured. Timing advance is a little over 20 at full boost/WOT.

If the stock ECU doesn't seem to have issues with a blend I'm not sure why tuning for a blend is such a big deal.

Anyone have any idea why my rail pressure is so high? Did something change with the 2013's?

 

[Needmoreboost]

To FoMoCo;

Running a little E on stock tune is ok.  Most people on here have tunes.  The tunes via more boost, fuel tables, and timing are running leaner than stock.  I would be careful if your tuned playing with E without meth or additional fuel.

Btw Ive done both and the tune is far better and makes much more power than stock tuning with E.  I assume your non tuned...right?

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

[/quote]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...

 

[4DRHTRD]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...

Bob accidentally hydrolocked his motor with his meth injection.

 

[bpd1151]

It wasn't his Meth Injection in and of itself, but more Bob having used an alternate substance in that system, and mixing it improperly.

Let's not scare people thinking it was the Meth Injection itself, it wasn't.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

To FoMoCo;

Running a little E on stock tune is ok.  Most people on here have tunes.  The tunes via more boost, fuel tables, and timing are running leaner than stock.  I would be careful if your tuned playing with E without meth or additional fuel.

Btw Ive done both and the tune is far better and makes much more power than stock tuning with E.  I assume your non tuned...right?

What AFR are the tuned cars running?

I am being careful, that's why I'm data logging and looking for feedback from some of the vets here. There seems to be conflicting info on whether the cars run out of fuel on ANY mix of E-85 yet my data is showing no issue.

I believe the benefits of a blend will also benefit a tuned car, especially lower intake charge temps and detonation resistance....If it doesn't run out of fuel.

I am not tuned yet but I understand the methods involved.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Bob, what happened with your engine? Did it have to do with running E-85?

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


Never ran anything with higher alcohol content in fuel before a couple weeks ago. E-85 or a mix of it wasn't my issue. With our stock fuel system and NO spray, I would never make a mix that was stronger than E-30.

My problem was ME using 100% Denatured alcohol for spray at low RPM....Lugged engine with full boost on... Ran  out of Methanol.

MY BAD...
[/quote]

Senior moment?

All kidding aside, that sucks.

 

[4DRHTRD]

It wasn't his Meth Injection in and of itself, but more Bob having used an alternate substance in that system, and mixing it improperly.

Let's not scare people thinking it was the Meth Injection itself, it wasn't.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

Actually there's been lots of hydrolocked motors over time with meth injection. The new controllers take care of most of that but it does happen still. There's a reason why I don't like it and prefer E85.

 

[Needmoreboost]

Keep on topic Kiddies!  Shift points.  Shift points.  There are corn threads.  Or feel free to start your own.  Fomo...

 

[4DRHTRD]

I'm trying to lower my shift points, my tranny is not liking trying to shift during or around the peak of the torque curve.

 

[Needmoreboost]

I'm trying to lower my shift points, my tranny is not liking trying to shift during or around the peak of the torque curve.

Put that Flex in the garage and try with your F150 Ecoboost.  99% of the people on here are mildly modified. 

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Captain Obvious has entered the building!

 

[bpd1151]

Put that Flex in the garage and try with your F150 Ecoboost.

No! No, no, no.......

Don't put your Flex in the garage.

Keep working on that monster of yours! The entire community is anxiously waiting on the edge of the seats for each and every update.



Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Put that Flex in the garage and try with your F150 Ecoboost.

No! No, no, no.......

Don't put your Flex in the garage.

Keep working on that monster of yours! The entire community is anxiously waiting on the edge of the seats for each and every update.



Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

THIS!

 

[Needmoreboost]

Captain Obvious has entered the building!

FoMoCoSHO....  Are you name calling?  That's not allowed per the rules.    LOL

 

[EcoBrick Bob]

I actually manually shifted my Flex down into 2nd at very low speed after W/M system was spraying Denatured Alcohol at full spray.  The Denatured alcohol if tuned for it would have been fine above 3K and at full throttle.  It just burns differently and is not as high an octane, and it's flash point is lower.

Had I been using a controller this never would have happened.  However I have  simple boost controlled on/off power switch for my pump.  I was running a #10 nozzle and at least 200PSI spray.  My system is much simpler and doesn't have to consider controller failure, which is a very real possibility.  It is almost as effective as a system with a controller when tuned correctly, which mine was on 70 + % methanol.  This all happened in late March 2012, when my Flex had around 34K.  It now is over 66K and 32K on new long block.  Runs great!  Recently I finally went from stock tune to Torrie's 93 tune, and tried a couple runs on Livernois 4+.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

If you look at dynograph shifting over 5500 RPM doesn't make a ton of sense on my car due to the HUGE HP and torque drop off.
Here's my evaluation of the current vs future shift points I am going to try.
Current:
Shift Points (rpm)   
                                  TQ at shift                                  TQ at next gear
1st-2nd    6500    38    500    RPM in 2nd      4164    582   
2nd-3rd    6500    59    500    RPM in 3rd      4167    582   
3rd-4th    6500    93      500    RPM in 4th      4981    635   
4th-5th    6500    121    500    RPM in 5th      4610    635   
5th-6th    6500    170    500    RPM in 6th      4810    640   



Suggested:
Shift Points (rpm)   
                                      TQ at shift                              TQ at next gear
1st-2nd    5540    32      600      RPM in 2nd    3549    510
2nd-3rd    5539    51      600      RPM in 3rd    3551    510
3rd-4th    5146    73      624      RPM in 4th    3943    558
4th-5th    5318    99      612      RPM in 5th    3772    534
5th-6th    5224    137    618    RPM in 6th    3866    546

New shift points puts us into the torque curve as it builds and shifts just after, current shifts well after torque max and shifts into the max.

This strategy my help your tranny live a little longer too.

 

[rallycobra]

You need to look at hp, not torque. You want to optimize your shift points for maximum total area under the hp curve. If your power peak is at 5400, you want to shift later than that if you can rev the engine higher. A quick glance at your power curve shows you should never let your rpms drop below 4000. I would set gears 1 and 2 to shift at about 6400
gear 3,4,5 about 6300. You need to see the power curve all the way out to max rpm before calculating optimum shift points

When you tell the computer to shift 1st gear at 6400, what rpm does it actually shift at? Have you data logged the acutal rpms before the shift? Maybe the transmission takes 3/10 of a second to shift and you are at 6900 before catching 2nd gear. Maybe you should tell the computer to shift at 6100 in first if you are getting a few hundred more rpm before the shift occurs.