MKS Stereo upgrades?

[Woody]

So my last 3 cars I have done nothing to the stereo in.  To be honest, I felt that my 2009 MKS was outstanding stock.  I actually dialed the bass back on it and it always had enough.  I had to be careful how much I turned it up and I was constantly tweaking the bass level depending on the music I was listening to.  So when I bought my 2012 MKS, I assumed it would be the same stereo.  Boy was I wrong.  I was left wondering if it had the factory sub and I actually pulled down the trim in the trunk to check.  Yup, it's there.  But it's far from the sub that was in the 2009.  So with the bass turned up ALL the way ALL the time, you can turn the volume up 100% and still not get any distortion at all.  It's growing on me a bit, but it is lacking in lower frequencies.  Certain types of music it really does sound great on, but there is nothing left in the system.  I have NO idea how the THX system in the MKS compares to the Sony in the Taurus.  I stopped at a high end shop and got their recommendations.  Wasn't crazy with their price though, and I wouldn't mind digging into a project like this myself.  At this point this is what I'm thinking:

Alpine MRV-M500 Amp
Alpine SWR-12D4 12" Sub
Some pre-made box
AudioControl LC2i LOC with correction for bass roll off

I'm trying to keep the budget reasonable but still get something that I will be happy with should I decide to expand the system in the future.  I have done a bit of reading in threads here as well as other car audio forums and such on adding to OEM head units.  It seems like the general consensus is to tap into the front door speakers, but I'm a bit unclear if I can do this and still have the stock amp drive those speakers and borrow the signal for the LOC.  Or am I stuck with pulling the signal from the factory sub for the new sub?

I would love to hear some input/experiences.  I'm surprised I couldn't find anything here about upgrades to the MKS system.

 

[BiGMaC]

So my last 3 cars I have done nothing to the stereo in.  To be honest, I felt that my 2009 MKS was outstanding stock.  I actually dialed the bass back on it and it always had enough.  I had to be careful how much I turned it up and I was constantly tweaking the bass level depending on the music I was listening to.  So when I bought my 2012 MKS, I assumed it would be the same stereo.  Boy was I wrong.  I was left wondering if it had the factory sub and I actually pulled down the trim in the trunk to check.  Yup, it's there.  But it's far from the sub that was in the 2009.  So with the bass turned up ALL the way ALL the time, you can turn the volume up 100% and still not get any distortion at all.  It's growing on me a bit, but it is lacking in lower frequencies.  Certain types of music it really does sound great on, but there is nothing left in the system.  I have NO idea how the THX system in the MKS compares to the Sony in the Taurus.  I stopped at a high end shop and got their recommendations.  Wasn't crazy with their price though, and I wouldn't mind digging into a project like this myself.  At this point this is what I'm thinking:

Alpine MRV-M500 Amp
Alpine SWR-12D4 12" Sub
Some pre-made box
AudioControl LC2i LOC with correction for bass roll off

I'm trying to keep the budget reasonable but still get something that I will be happy with should I decide to expand the system in the future.  I have done a bit of reading in threads here as well as other car audio forums and such on adding to OEM head units.  It seems like the general consensus is to tap into the front door speakers, but I'm a bit unclear if I can do this and still have the stock amp drive those speakers and borrow the signal for the LOC.  Or am I stuck with pulling the signal from the factory sub for the new sub?

I would love to hear some input/experiences.  I'm surprised I couldn't find anything here about upgrades to the MKS system.

I have the Sony in a '13 SHO.  My son has the THX in a'10 MKS.... The MKS is hands down a vastly superior system... although both could be better!

 

[Lanson]

Well, most of you know what I'm going to say but screw it...

Processor (most likely)
Deadening/sealing
nice sub and box, I know literally tons of great brands that produce incredible products but cost very little (sub $200 range)
Nice amp for the sub (I know of a good one for $100.)

And see how it sounds, perhaps you would want to upgrade the front speakers but with proper processing, let's see what they can do.


edit:  Oh, where are you in the country, maybe I can build you a box that you'll love.

 

[Lanson]

Did more research on the THX system for another member...wow what a complicated unit.

My suggestion first... deaden and seal the car up best you can all around, and listen again.  From this point, things should be way better but know that to go from here, you've got a big gap.  The THX system has incredibly complex circuitry in use here, and it is more of an all-or-nothing approach to fixing it, short of just replacing the subs with better ones (which you can do, with some work.)

But use quality deadening materials, do the doors, trunk, and anything else you can get into ...and see how it sounds. 

From there, maybe we can plan and fab a really nice, well-designed sub and enclosure that replaces the THX box now, and improves the overall presence of the lower frequencies.  You'd still deaden anyway, but that part will already be done (YAY!)

I get my materials from www.raamaudio.com.  I was thinking package #2 for you to do the whole car head to toe.

 

[Woody]

Thanks for the info, Lanson!  Aside from the fact that you have to take the car apart, how hard is deadening material to apply?  I have never gone to that level, but I'd love to get the best sounding setup I can.  My main problem is time is somewhat of a commodity for me.  My wife and I both work full time and we have 4 children, the oldest of which is 5.  Yes, it's safe to say I'm busy and I don't really know what "free" time is.

To answer your earlier question, I'm just north of Detroit.

The stock sub isn't in a "box"  It's just a free-air setup in the rear deck.  I would love to mount its replacement in the same location for space and aesthetics, but not sure how much mass the deck can carry.  As I said earlier, I'm actually very happy overall with the THX system.  It's well balanced and has great punch.  It just lacks on the bottom end.  I also need a pretty well rounded system.  Country is 50% of my listening, but the rest is a mix of rock, rap, electronic, pop, oldies, you name it.  I listen to just about everything.  I put my iPod on shuffle and it will go from George Strait to Snoop Dogg to Frank Sinatra to Brad Paisley, Arctic Monkeys, Eminem, Kid Rock, Drake, 311...  I love music and I listen to all kinds!

Need to figure out an economical way to get this done.  Both financially and time wise.   The wife has already expressed that I spend too much time on my car.  Maybe I need to go to the bar more so she appreciates having me in the garage instead.

 

[BiGMaC]

Sound deadening is a key!... clearer highs, less unwanted resonance.... and quieter when  you're not listening to the sound system!

...when going for the best I always took the all interior completely out and used a few of hundred pounds of Dynamat to cover 60-70% of the interior panels including roof, firewall and floor....

improvement is dramatic!... and cars around you don't have to get the bump from your subs.

Lanson... how does the product you use compare with Dynamat Extreme .... cost?... function? (in dB please if you can)....

...AND... how would you recommend dealing with the folding rear seat?

 

[Woody]

How did that old Wendy's commercial go?  Where's the magnet?

 

[Woody]

Sound deadening is a key!... clearer highs, less unwanted resonance.... and quieter when  you're not listening to the sound system!

...when going for the best I always took the all interior completely out and used a few of hundred pounds of Dynamat to cover 60-70% of the interior panels including roof, firewall and floor....

improvement is dramatic!... and cars around you don't have to get the bump from your subs.

Lanson... how does the product you use compare with Dynamat Extreme .... cost?... function? (in dB please if you can)....

...AND... how would you recommend dealing with the folding rear seat?

This is actually one area the MKS differs from the Taurus.  We don't get a folding seat.  Just a pass thru.

 

[SRT82ECOBOOST]

I will have an Audiocontrol LC2 for sale in the next week if you want to get one cheap. PM me if you are interested.

 

[Lanson]

My answers is bold

Thanks for the info, Lanson!  Aside from the fact that you have to take the car apart, how hard is deadening material to apply? It isn't hard, but it is time consuming.  Just take your time, do it slow.  Get a roller (quality rubber or wooden) to roll the product on.  I always wipe a panel down with mild degreaser and water, dry, and then apply the product.  Mainly, you want to kill resonance so a quick tap on the surface tells you how "dead" the resonance is.  Thin, flat pieces of metal are your biggest target.  Rick (RAAMAudio)'s website has good tutorial info.  I have never gone to that level, but I'd love to get the best sounding setup I can.  My main problem is time is somewhat of a commodity for me.  My wife and I both work full time and we have 4 children, the oldest of which is 5.  Yes, it's safe to say I'm busy and I don't really know what "free" time is. 
You can always hire a pro, but it will cost a lot because it takes time.

To answer your earlier question, I'm just north of Detroit. Bummer for me!

The stock sub isn't in a "box"  It's just a free-air setup in the rear deck.  I would love to mount its replacement in the same location for space and aesthetics, but not sure how much mass the deck can carry.  As I said earlier, I'm actually very happy overall with the THX system.  It's well balanced and has great punch.  It just lacks on the bottom end.  I also need a pretty well rounded system.  Country is 50% of my listening, but the rest is a mix of rock, rap, electronic, pop, oldies, you name it.  I listen to just about everything.  I put my iPod on shuffle and it will go from George Strait to Snoop Dogg to Frank Sinatra to Brad Paisley, Arctic Monkeys, Eminem, Kid Rock, Drake, 311...  I love music and I listen to all kinds!

Need to figure out an economical way to get this done.  Both financially and time wise.   The wife has already expressed that I spend too much time on my car.  Maybe I need to go to the bar more so she appreciates having me in the garage instead.

So I think what I would do is deaden and seal the best you can, especially seal and deaden the trunk.  This will make the sub you have respond more linearly, and there will be less cancellation as a result.  Replacing the sub with another one can be a really messy thing, potentially.  The THX amp runs two channels to the sub, effectively a dual voice coil sub.  We have an unknown ohm spec, but If you get to see some numbers on the sub itself...we'll have that understood.  Fitment can also be tough, but it is possible that a replacement sub could fit in the deck.  As far as weight, don't worry about that right now.  Worst-case, you'd reinforce the deck with wood or metal.  Deadening and sealing will make the brace a little stronger, so I think you're OK.  If you get time, let's get measurements of this sub, and its mounting parameters.  From there, we can see if an aftermarket sub can fit.  With free-air subs, you need to have certain T/S parameters or the sub will sound worse than what you have.  A high Qts number is primary concern.  Over .5 and up to .8

 

[Lanson]

In bold

Sound deadening is a key!... clearer highs, less unwanted resonance.... and quieter when  you're not listening to the sound system!

...when going for the best I always took the all interior completely out and used a few of hundred pounds of Dynamat to cover 60-70% of the interior panels including roof, firewall and floor....

improvement is dramatic!... and cars around you don't have to get the bump from your subs.

Lanson... how does the product you use compare with Dynamat Extreme .... cost?... function? (in dB please if you can)....
I've used Dynamat Xtreme in the past, especially when I could get it for 80% off (as an employee.)  That said, Raam makes basically the same thing, cheaper.  Also, there are MANY good brands for deadening.  If you need something that is really, really strong, you can go to www.sounddeadenershowdown.com and order Don's tiles.  They are insanely strong.  On DIYMA forum, there is/was a massive test done on samples of deadener, and the results posted.  Many contenders in this game.  Whatever you pick, make sure it is a pure butyl product with a quality constraining layer like aluminum.  Dynamat Xtreme is the same.

...AND... how would you recommend dealing with the folding rear seat?
If you are going with true IB, you block off and seal the trunk, no exceptions.  The goal is to make waves that can cancel each other as minimized as possible.  The front wave of a sub is just as effective as the back wave, but they cancel when they "see" each other.  So, the trunk must be truly sealed off best you can.  Efforts to seal by any means necessary will pay off.  If you are going with a box in the trunk, then actually you want to NOT seal the trunk, and let the bass pass right through the car's rear seat and back area as freely as possible.

 

[Lanson]

While pondering this, I think I have a solution.  This is an infinite baffle sub.  IB subs really need to be quite large to produce acceptable SPL.  A 10" IB sub is not going to be an exceptional performer, overall.  HOWEVER, look at that pic of the sub.  What if you built a ring that mounted a bigger sub under the metal here, and then made a mounting ring for a 12" infinite-baffle subwoofer under?!  It might take a little space away from the trunk height though.  You could just cut a circle into the top hide panel, and make it look good with simple weatherstripping rubber or edge rubber.  I'm not sure what the THX amp can do, but if someone gets some specs on the subwoofer's ohm measurements or can read it off the sub (if it has that), we'll be able to figure out what can be done.

edit:

Had another idea... We could use the same technique of building rings to make a shape, but mount a sub inverse.  We would then put a grille on the sub front, and have the magnet poke up toward the rear deck.  The ring(s) would mount against the metal we see here in the pic. 

So same basic idea, just executed backwards.  I could do this stuff I just need a freaking car so I can build a solution.

 

[BBOX]

I don't have anything to add just this sec but wanted to respond so I'll be able to easily come back. Also kudos to Lanson who has been awesome with answering my questions.

 

[Lanson]

Let's get more pics of this whole thing, up close and personal. 

Whomever starts deadening/sealing up their MKS will probably have all these panels off anyway, so shoot high res pics, measure everything, and let's get a grip on how to make this perfect.  With measurements I can create a 3D model in Sketchup, and we can figure out exactly how and what sub would work.

This may be a job for the Peerless shallow XLS sub.  A little more expensive, but excellent performance in a very shallow package, and high Qts for an IB application.

 

[ZSHO]

First thing I hate is ripping a new car apart or messing around with wires,learned the hard way,from past experiences a bazooka bass tube is the way to go,its a tube that has a built in amp and speaker built in one,it comes in 8 or 10 inch and it will blow your socks off,and best part its portable, just disconnect the neg and positive wire.

 

[Lanson]

First thing I hate is ripping a new car apart or messing around with wires,learned the hard way,from past experiences a bazooka bass tube is the way to go,its a tube that has a built in amp and speaker built in one,it comes in 8 or 10 inch and it will blow your socks off,and best part its portable, just disconnect the neg and positive wire.

I LOVE tearing into a fresh car, literally it is like Christmas for me.  But that's one reason I build for others and try to help fellow forum members, family, friends, etc. 

Re the Bazooka tube...I bet my own Flex I can create a better sub system in less space.  Anyone want to take that bet?  Brands like Bazooka make OK stuff, but there's too much bean counting and compromise.  But if anybody likes cylindrical sub enclosures, I have a few Sonotube designs that may pique your interest.

 

[Woody]

Wow.  Thanks for all the information already Lanson.  I hope I can be the person to start digging into the car and show folks what is there.  Unfortunately time is tight around here.  I could see myself ripping all the trim out of the trunk and starting there.  Would that provide much improvement?  I'm sure it would provide some insight into wiring.  I already pulled back the left side trim and found, like the Taurus, that is where the amp is mounted.  Also, thinking of a stealth install, noted that there are similar spaces on the right and other areas in the trunk where one could mount an aftermarket amp for a sub.

Ironically, the other car in my garage is a 2011 Flex.  So it's interesting following your build.  I will likely never do anything with that car though.  It's my wife's daily driver now, and we plan to keep it after it's paid off to transport the troupes around.

 

[Lanson]

Wow.  Thanks for all the information already Lanson.  I hope I can be the person to start digging into the car and show folks what is there.  Unfortunately time is tight around here.  I could see myself ripping all the trim out of the trunk and starting there.  Would that provide much improvement?  I'm sure it would provide some insight into wiring.  I already pulled back the left side trim and found, like the Taurus, that is where the amp is mounted.  Also, thinking of a stealth install, noted that there are similar spaces on the right and other areas in the trunk where one could mount an aftermarket amp for a sub.

Ironically, the other car in my garage is a 2011 Flex.  So it's interesting following your build.  I will likely never do anything with that car though.  It's my wife's daily driver now, and we plan to keep it after it's paid off to transport the troupes around.

When you're tearing into there, you might as well do it while installing deadening/sealing material.  It will make better use of the time, and you'll get a benefit at the same time. 

 

[Scott4957]

I'm dragging this post out of the basement as I had the same request as the OP. Lanson sounded like he had some great ideas for replacing the stock sub in the stock location with something better performing. I love the THX II system but would just like a bit of extra bass. No issues with doing some fabrication on my end to fit the right sub as well as adding an amp if the stock output is not enough. Lanson seems to be on another level when it comes to choosing the right hardware and when and where to do the sound deadening.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[SHOdded]

PM Lanson with questions, if he does not respond on this forum.  He's still active over on fordflex.net if you needed another contact point.  Finally, Mike (EcoPowerParts) will likely know how to get in touch with him.