NEW BRAKE SOURCE PowerStop thur AutoAnything

[Todd TCE]

Figured I would put up some data for you guys to chew on here.

2012 SHO

Rotors: 325mm vented front, 330mm solid rear
Front caliper: 48mm x 2
Rear caliper: 45mm x 1
MC bore: 1.062"

2013 SHO

Rotors: 352 vented front, 345 vented rear
Front caliper: 48mm x 2
Rear calier: 45mm x 1
MC bore: 1.125

Clearly the rotor size is bumped up a bit on both ends. And a vented rear will aide in durability for sustained heat use as well.

Note however that the caliper piston size remains the same. Yet the MC bore is enlarged. That enlargement is your "better" that everyone is jumping up and down about. However that larger bore produces much less pressure than the smaller bore one found on the 2012. While your foot is telling your brain better the reality is that you are simply pushing harder on the pedal.

What I confess to not having run yet (you can do it) is the how the lower pressure combines with the larger diameter (radius really- not as impressive) between the two. I'm of quick thought process of saying that for the same given effort the new car has less brake torque in reality. That 1/16" of area pressure loss trumps the 12mm of rotor radius increase I bet.

Run the numbers http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/ and see. Just keep all the data in MM if you want on both and only look at the rotor torque values. 325mm or 325 inches it's the same for comparing the changes.


Ran it quickly without converting it to inches. As expected the 'new' brakes actually make less total brake torque for the same given input pressure. To ramp them up to be "better" the amount of effort needs to go up also- that's the feel aspect. Interesting to note the car is a bit more front biased this way also.

I agree on the booster but that would go to further my point; the changes are not really more brake torque so much as it is a mental thing that makes folks think they are better. The consumer wants tactical feel really more than he does torque. Modulation is key and a softer pedal is much harder to do that with. The 'new' set up doesn't really brake any better (worse really) but the pedal gives the impression they do because that consumer has to work harder. Not overly surprised at any of that and I wouldn't loose sleep over it but it was worth looking at.

 

[BlackMammoth.org]

Don't forget that there is more to brake feel than piston sizing. The booster may be calibrated differently... not sure how to check that?

 

[shoman04]

The areas on the rotor that are not part of the contact area for the pad......how are they holding up against corrosion resistance? Cause this kit is zinc washed or something right?
I know my factory rotors were always rusty on the hats from new.

Here are my rotor after 20kmi and 6mo uses. And the car hasn't been driven since yesterday.

 

[Todd TCE]

Ran it quickly without converting it to inches. As expected the 'new' brakes actually make less total brake torque for the same given input pressure. To ramp them up to be "better" the amount of effort needs to go up also- that's the feel aspect. Interesting to note the car is a bit more front biased this way also.

I agree on the booster but that would go to further my point; the changes are not really more brake torque so much as it is a mental thing that makes folks think they are better. The consumer wants tactical feel really more than he does torque. Modulation is key and a softer pedal is much harder to do that with. The 'new' set up doesn't really brake any better (worse really) but the pedal gives the impression they do because that consumer has to work harder. Not overly surprised at any of that and I wouldn't loose sleep over it but it was worth looking at

 

[chad1140]

I think the pic had issue loading.

 

[Joleat]

Regretfully, I'm posting this update to express my displeasure with the PowerStop brake kit. I installed the kit on the evening of January 15th and followed the break in procedure to exacting standards. I've since logged approximately 1500 miles of easy driving and the front rotors are already warped. I haven't even had an opportunity to put them to the test. At first, I was pleased with the savings, but I'm now regretting my decision to save a few bucks over the EBC rotors and pads. I now need to decide if I want to order the EBC parts and return the PowerStop kit. I wouldn't be willing to accept an exchange as I fear the replacements would suffer the same fate.

 

[FLIP-4-SHO]

I 2 am not pleased with this kit.

While out & about in meh SHO!

 

[dmharvey79]

I plan to go with OEM rotors and EBC pads when the time comes.

 

[curry67]

On pre 2013 cars I was under the impression that the rotors were all the same size.  Just the pads were upgraded on the PP. 

Is this a SHO PP kit? Most of the decent performance rotors I've seen are only available in the larger 13.3" size for the front. If memory serves me correctly, I think non-PP SHO and MKS front rotors are slightly under 13".

I'd love to find some nice matching front/rear slotted rotors and decent pads for ~$500 to slap on all four corners of the MKS. My front rotors are warped something awful and have been since I purchased the car.

I thought the same once my pads wear out I was planning to get the pp ones.

I love how its described in the catalog (lesser version) lol
BRAKES / BRAKE COMPONENTS / BRAKE COMPONENTS / FRONT PADS
FRONT PADS Taurus SHO; SHO Package 1

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$66.63 $0.00 $22.65 $43.98


BRAKES / BRAKE COMPONENTS / BRAKE COMPONENTS / FRONT PADS
FRONT PADS Taurus SHO; Less Version Package

MSRP Core ? Save Online Price
$66.63 $0.00 $22.65 $43.98

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[black99lightning]

At around 45K I was getting some groaning when applying brakes.  Nothing was worn out and pads looked to have atleast 1/2 life yet.  I decided to upgrade to EBC slotted and green stuff pads.  I immediately noticed that the pads didn't have holes to place the pad shims like the factory.  I installed everything anyway.  Broke in according to instructions, and almost immediately the the rotors were warped.  I called AA and complained.  They didn't warranty the rotors, but did send me powerstop pads which did have the provisions for the factory clips.  Installed these pads on the EBC rotors, was better but the damage was done.  Went to Ford bought another set of factory rotors and used the PS pads which only had about 500-1000 miles on them and have been good ever since.  The EBC rotors are sitting in a storage container.  $350 worth of junk.    Lesson learned.

 

[DJE624]

Regretfully, I'm posting this update to express my displeasure with the PowerStop brake kit. I installed the kit on the evening of January 15th and followed the break in procedure to exacting standards. I've since logged approximately 1500 miles of easy driving and the front rotors are already warped. I haven't even had an opportunity to put them to the test. At first, I was pleased with the savings, but I'm now regretting my decision to save a few bucks over the EBC rotors and pads. I now need to decide if I want to order the EBC parts and return the PowerStop kit. I wouldn't be willing to accept an exchange as I fear the replacements would suffer the same fate.

I 2 am not pleased with this kit.

While out & about in meh SHO!

I plan to go with OEM rotors and EBC pads when the time comes.

I'm thinking OEM rotors and Hawk pads maybe.  I'm not too surprised that the Powerstop was not all that it was cracked up to be.

 

[SHOdded]

Anybody tried Hawk HPS pads on factory rotors?

 

[Todd TCE]

If you guys want to stop this inherent problem: get your foot off the brake pedal when you stop. Bump it in neutral or creep the car at the stop.

I know..I know..flame away. As you wish, but I'm telling you how to end this for good. Coming from a Titan owner with 122k on the original brakes- a truck that if you google will find hundreds of "these brake suck" posts. If I can teach my wife on an Exploder and not be replacing pads and discs, you can do it too.

 

[Joleat]

You're not the first person to think of that and that is precisely what I've been doing for these first 1500 miles. I thought these rotors were warped right out of the box, but I convinced myself that it was just in my head. It wasn't until I had to travel through a hilly area that I came to my senses and admitted that that they were warped. This is all coming from someone who has never warped any rotors. I've purchased vehicles with warped rotors, this MKS for example, but I've never warped any myself.

 

[shoman04]

You're not the first person to think of that and that is precisely what I've been doing for these first 1500 miles. I thought these rotors were warped right out of the box, but I convinced myself that it was just in my head. It wasn't until I had to travel through a hilly area that I came to my senses and admitted that that they were warped. This is all coming from someone who has never warped any rotors. I've purchased vehicles with warped rotors, this MKS for example, but I've never warped any myself.

Sorry Joleat about your disk warping, But I have had my pwr-stop for 7mo 15000mi and my dealer took my hole fwr end apart to fix my PTU AND NO BRAKE PROBLEM at all.

 

[crash712us]

I've been nothing but pleased with my EBC rotors and brakes. However those of you considering mixing pads with rotors EBC doesn't recommend, at least with some of there pads. I am on my 2nd set front pads now from them, and got about 25k out them. They have been worked hard but the rotors are still absolutely perfect and hardly even worn. But Todd theory is correct hold hot pads against rotor can cause warpage. Also the most over looked when changing rotors is not cleaning dirt and rust off hubs, this will give you that feeling of being warped rotors right out of the box.

 

[Joleat]

Sorry Joleat about your disk warping, But I have had my pwr-stop for 7mo 15000mi and my dealer took my hole fwr end apart to fix my PTU AND NO BRAKE PROBLEM at all.

No worries Shoman. I suspect the quality control just isn't there. At the price they can afford to sell an entire brake kit for, it's no wonder there are some duds rolling off the line. As discouraging as this is, I understood that I was taking a risk from the get go by purchasing from a company that isn't considered to be at the same level as some of the more well known brake parts makers. It sounds like you received a good kit though. Hopefully there are more good kits than bad.

 

[Todd TCE]

I understand that not everyone will agree with my suggestions. And I'm good with that.

But let's take a look at some other things here;

Replacement rotors are marketed by a variety of companies. But before we claim one to be better than another keep in mind that nearly all of these are imports from China, and many of them are reboxed from the same supplier under different brands. Centric being one of the largest I know of their parts come in a half dozen different "label" boxes/brands.

Taking that to the next level a lot of companies are selling special rotors with slots, holes or whatever in them. Meaning they are simply buying the least expensive part they can and prettying it up for you- slotting, plating and putting it in a techno looking box. The shear scope of it should nix any thoughts that anyone selling on ebay is certainly not making their own rotors! Even on the bigger scale the thought that there are dozens of foundries cranking out rotors for hundreds or thousands of vehicles is a bit unrealistic. I probably get one or two request a month to have my own needs cast by a Chinese company if I want to contact their company.

As for pads...there are quite a few pad suppliers and options. (a bit less grand scale operation compared to casting rotors!) I've been doing this for 22yrs now and other than carbon or Ti rotors I've never heard anyone suggest you cannot mix certain pads and rotors. That flys in the face of how a rotor functions- pad transfer being applied, pad material liking pad material etc. I've never seen an iron rotor that won't work with a specific pad- unless that pad was specific to things like Ti or Carbon. What I have seen however....is that some pad material is not compatible with other pad material. Once pad transfer is in place replacing that pad with an alternate compound can be dicey. For that very reason many suggest you replace both pads and rotor, or at least turn the disc before you fit new pads.

From personal experience running PFC pads (a high carbon pad) and then replacing it with another brand was simply not going to work. The transfer layer of pfc compound embedded in the iron created a ice-like surface that the other pad had no love for. There was nothing wrong with the other pad it just didn't have an attraction to the pfc material. The point being; if you swap pads only be certain the new pad is the same or will function with the older material. There is no need for replacing or cutting under such condition btw. Nor have I ever seen a need for brand specific pads to a specific rotor.

 

[BiGMaC]

Todd... Thanks for the info.  Clearly a lot of variables exist when mixing and matching begins.

 

[SHOdded]

From personal experience running PFC pads (a high carbon pad) and then replacing it with another brand was simply not going to work. The transfer layer of pfc compound embedded in the iron created a ice-like surface that the other pad had no love for. There was nothing wrong with the other pad it just didn't have an attraction to the pfc material. The point being; if you swap pads only be certain the new pad is the same or will function with the older material. There is no need for replacing or cutting under such condition btw. Nor have I ever seen a need for brand specific pads to a specific rotor.

Thanks, Todd!  That certainly explains why my ProACT and HPS pads didn't seem to perform with the rotors after the (beloved) PFCs were ready for replacement.