No Meth required 403WHP/527WTQ

A

ajpturbo

New member
These are a series of pulls on the same dyno from this past fall....Also note that kyle04 has dyno results from THIS SAME dyno for his  livernois tune. He went a week or so after me this past fall. His numbers were a best of 356hp/385tq and are posted in the dyno section

Below is a stock tune with the 2 bar sensor. However I do have catless down pipes and the air raid for all these pulls

I too am surprised by the results but I have been working on this for the better part of 2 years and have done hundreds of tune revisions....Unlike some of the calibrators out there, I have the benefit of owning the car to do my own testing on my own time frame with no limitations on revisions. SO I contribute a lot of it to that

All dyno runs and tunes that I run are also with the stock thermostat and stock spark plugs and 93 octane Sunoco pump gas.

Feel free to research the power numbers for the dyno at PRL motorsports in Export, PA....I already have and nothing seems out of line with me.

My previous tuning session in the fall was a best of 394/435 for my old unleashed tune and 392/465 for one of my tunes....I felt I made some breakthroughs and wanted to see where I stood with the new tunes

Also, take a look at the PID "load absolute". I'm not exactly sure what that is but it seems to me that it may be some sort of calculated torque value. It would make sense that the ECU would have this because it does know the tq level that is being delivered...Many of the tables are based on it and as some of you may know, the way to increase boost in the tune is not to actually command more boost but to command more torque then the ECU translates that into a load value then that is translated into an airflow requirement "desired tip"

I logged absolute load....So everyway I look at it the numbers add up to me.
 
THis is also a stock tune with only changes to swap in a 3 bar map sensor...Very similar to the bone stock boost tune....As it should be

This may be confusing but the MAP sensor has no effect on the power it simply reads airflow as determined by speed density...The ECU just needs to know which sensor is in the car
 
This is a 2 bar sensor tune

Stock boost levels but with added spark and with the throttle open...SO for people that may want more power but without the extra boost this tune would be for you

I have found that even with boost levels that are the same when the throttle is open the power delivered is much better and the turbo doesn't have to work as hard..It's simply more efficient when the turbo doesn't have to fight a slightly closed throttle body
 
This is a 2 BAR map sensor tune

This is 14 psi and additional spark. This is the max boost I would use on the stock map sensor. There is still some room left to allow for boost spikes. This would be for someone that does not wish to purchase a 3 bar map sensor.
 
This is the best I could do with the 3 bar map sensor and about 17 psi. This is very impressive....When everything is working in sync and the ECU is "happy" the power really becomes available..There are other limiters at play from the datalogs I have been seeing. Mainly with spark.

I believe the reason for the power increase is mainly due to increased boost at low rpm, steady boost levels from 2500 rpm to redline and spark....At the load levels for this run which were about 1.7 and IAT2's were about 100-130 degrees F I was about 16 degrees spark and most logs I see for people without meth are as low as 8 degrees....8 degrees will change power dramatically...Add to that the smooth even boost and increased boost down low....

I have data logs for every run listed above....

Also on this tune there is a fuel pressure dip around 3000 rpm but you can see that is where the tq is high on the graph so the fuel system was taxed until boost regulated...That may have been a 19 psi spike. And when fuel pressure dipped it was only about 1550 psi so I will take that all day...everywhere else was 2200...Fuel delivery seems to be a lot stronger when the high pressure pump has the limitations lifted from it's operation.

I also ran a tune about 18.5 psi and it was about the same as this so I run this tune everyday and have been for months now

Here Is also a log for the 17 psi run...Actually I think the desired TIP is 220 KPA So it's targeting 17 psi at the TIP which is pre throttle body and you lose a 1/4 pound of boost or so at the map sensor even when throttle is open
 
I would love to see some people run 15-16 psi down low and 17 psi midrange and top end on E30.....I don't have much E85 around me and don't care to mess with it but I'm going to guess it should do well
 
Pretty impressive results, AJ.  Would love to know your maintenance products & routines/timings for the SHO btw.
 
Good work AJ.  Do you feel as though you've reached a 'daily driver maximum' with your 3 bar 17psi tune?

We need you to do some testing with ACES fuel 'catalyst'.

It looks like your spark and fuel pressure *might* benefit from it.  I hope it to be a replacement for meth to boost octane.  Let me know if you ever find yourself around DC... I'll give you enough for a few tanks
 
Awesome and great work! Thank you for sharing this! I'm sure I will have all kinds of questions once I dig into the log. Do you by chance have a log of a street pull, 0-100 on this tune, just trying to compare apples to apples. I'm also curious how you think this would run if it where 20 degrees warmer or cooler? Do you think that fuel pressure drop would be too low on a 40 degree day? And do you think a significant amount of timing would be pulled on an 80 degree day? And if so are you looking to run a small amount of meth to maintain this performance over a wide range of conditions?
 
3c2a694ed2996892e86bdfd9a9d0519b.jpg

Good work, great numbers.
 
Yeah im looking forward to time slips as well...and scott yeah i expect a slight reduction at frigid temps but the 1500-1600 minimum that i hit with this i feel good about the headroom that is left in it for cooler temps....also its not as low as some other tunes i have seen that are currently tearing it up

And yeah timing will be pulled as the temps rise...same as any other tune that is properly set up....so instead of being at 16 degrees i may be at 14 on a warmer day....although ambient temps are in play they arent the main factor..its the temp in the manifold...iat2
 
Not  really looking play with meth..although i cant deny the benefits...but i daily this car and just dont care to do the work and its fast enough and im not crazy about the fuel tuning that i see

I think i would do an even 20 psi and the same spark as i run with 17 psi with meth if i did...if you see my graphs my boost is even as seen in the log but look how bad torque drops off...to me that means that at high rpm the turbo is out of "breath " and past its efficiency....20 psi midrange would look good i think
 
20 is roughly double stock, and even 17 is few more than LMS (I believe their more performance tune tops out at 15).  You are also creating more boost, sooner. 

Are you worried about wearing down the turbos prematurely?

In my novice head, is seems easy to up the boost and call it a day.  Yet thats not the approach other turners are doing.
 
J-Will said:
20 is roughly double stock, and even 17 is few more than LMS (I believe their more performance tune tops out at 15).  You are also creating more boost, sooner. 

Are you worried about wearing down the turbos prematurely?

In my novice head, is seems easy to up the boost and call it a day.  Yet thats not the approach other turners are doing.
Click to expand...

Im running less than the meth heads and less than ive seen in some unleashed tunes...and based on wastegate duty cycles and the relatively short time you spend at wot im not really worried about destroying $500 turbos

Lms doesnt seem to do much custom tuning so it doesnt surpris me their tunes run less boost

Actually its not easy to "up" the boost and call it a day as the only way i found to get the boost to come in where and when i wanted it was to figure it out myself..based on some logs ive seen , commanding boost is not simple for some tuners

I havent even seen spark commanded properly

So what is the approach other tuners are taking?...im actually curious on how you percieve their approach on tunes to be?
 
Also the logs that were posted from lms had a target boost of about 189 kpa in their 3bar tune....in my 14 psi 2 bar tune i targeted about 193 kpa.....stock 2 bar will read 206 kpa so i wouldnt even use a 3 bar for lms boost levels
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
my 2017 SHO w/PP
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
27K
SHOdded
S
jmarreroi
2017 explorer sport throttle body
Replies
2
Views
8K
jmarreroi
jmarreroi
D
P0234 on ecoboost 2.0, 22 Maverick - Tuned
Replies
1
Views
9K
SHOdded
S
2014RedBull
New member from Boston
Replies
2
Views
163
bpd1151
bpd1151
P
2016 Taurus Police Ecoboost problem
Replies
6
Views
3K
SHOdded
S
Back
Top