^^^^^Hahahahaha
Says the power pimp.....AJP turbo said:FoMoCoSHO said:I know there are those with serious ocd about their blend but my goal is to get close
Hhmm i wonder who....ive never understood why addicts and people with mental conditions are unable to identify their problems lol
Brucelinc said:Ok, I am far from a professional drag racer but I have run a good many times in the past couple of years. I have run in much higher DA than I am seeing here and also in hotter temps and humidity.
Other than the first time I was ever on the track, my MKS was consistently in the 12.6. - 12.8 range. I always removed the engine cover but NEVER the bottom aero-shield. I typically brake torqued to around 1800 and probably for no longer than around 3 seconds. I usually pulled the hood release at the turn around and drove back to the pits with it cracked open.
I can't explain the results wildly fluctuating results Tophersho is experiencing but never found heat to make as much difference as he is seeing.
FoMoCoSHO said:Hey topher, do your stations have corn and 93 on the same pump? If so I don't see why pumping gas would be difficult for any attendant as long as you tell them how much to put in. I know there are those with serious ocd about their blend but my goal is to get close, fuel trims can handle the rest.
Josephm said:Did you have your hood popped in the staging lanes?
Do you have the "Engine Cover / Heat blanket" still in place?
Brucelinc said:I may be missing something since I really don't know how to read the logs. However, if I am following this thread correctly, Topher was running mid 13s to low 14s, the DA was under 2500 and the ambient temp was in the 90s.
No doubt heat plays a role. However, it seems like there is more to it than that in this case. I would run maybe 2-3 tenths slower in high DA, high heat conditions but never a full second like we are seeing here. I am NOT blaming the tune at all but I wonder if there is some other issue going on here.
By the way, since heat rises, I don't think the bottom areo-shield has much if any impact on IATs. The benefit of a smoother underbelly would certainly outweigh any negatives. The key is letting the hot air out the top and Topher was doing all the right things for that.
TopherSho said:
Back on topic. i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps. IE they are pulling too much spark, but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...
AJP turbo said:TopherSho said:
Back on topic. i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps. IE they are pulling too much spark, but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...
Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark
So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.
I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.
Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.
now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly
So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.
In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.
I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently
Brucelinc said:Bugs and other road debris stuck in the intercooler? I don't quite understand why heat seems to slow your car down more than other SHOs.
AJP does not seem to think it is all heat/timing issue and I defer to him and others on that...TopherSho said:AJP turbo said:TopherSho said:
Back on topic. i *Suspect* the spark tables were overly influenced by the temps. IE they are pulling too much spark, but that would necessitate fiddling with the formula .. and i am not comfortable with that simply because here in oregon the temp drop too fast from day to day and i'd hate it to push to much spark on cooler days...
Just to clarify, I think you may be overestimating the tune corrections and the effect on spark...But what shouldn't be underestimated is the effect of heat on spark
So your spark is pretty good for 92 octane as is most of the pre 2013 SHO's...The gen 1 cars seem to tolerate more spark for some reason...In the heat I still don't see why low 13's should be a problem to achieve so overall I'm surprised...Actually I would've guessed your car to do better than most on a dyno or track for a pump gas car.
I lift some of the spark limiters on your tune which will result in higher spark even when nothing else is touched, provided the knock sensors are happy which your's always were.
Then in your case, I added 1 more degree to your spark tables.
now for some to be pulled....For your IAT compensation tables. in stock form at 1.5 load and 150 IAT2 your tune would pull about 3 degrees of spark...THis gets done in the spark calculation you will not see this in the knock sensor....I change the multiplier so that at the same load and IAT2(1.5 and 150) 5 degrees would be pulled....That way the spark is pulled in the final calculation a bit more than stock. 2 degrees in your case that way the knock sensor should be happy and it's more likely the spark will be added by the knock sensor...I'd rather do that than have the knock sensor pull...When the knock sensor pulls they do it quickly and abruptly
So your IAT compensation is pulling 2 more degrees than stock but only at high IAT and HIGH load....But you have 1 degree added to the base tables so at times you are only netting 1 less degree but that all is offset by the limiters I've removed to allow more spark and don't forget the knock sensor being allowed to add spark back in.
In all honesty, you could be a bad tuner and get away tuning ecoboost because the Knock sensors and OAR values will just get things back to where they need to be....That's also one reason you can make mass produced tunes for wide distribution across the country and fuel octane.
I don't like saying maybe the car is "tired" but even in the heat I would think it would run faster....I know I've seen identical cars run differently
Yeah 'tired' is a weird phrase for me since I just broke 50k miles. I have a handful of logs you and I ran showing it can run high 12's from this spring so don't quite think it's worn out per-say.
But PIR's heat did kill it.. I might have to take off the trim and open the radiator cap and peak inside.. wonder if there is acid damage or corrosion inside.
StealBlueSho said:I cleaned it the best I could after this photo...most of the discoloring is from bent fins....
dubcitySHO said:Topher, have you popped the intercooler to throttle body pipe to see if there is any oil/water build up in your IC?