Rear fuel pressure

f8tlSHO

New member
Ok, I just wanted to see if anyone can answer this question. In the summer the air is warmer and less dense, so more boost is able to be run in a tune right? So in the winter when the fuel pressure takes a dive, is it because the air is more dense and you are still commanding the same boost level as the summer? So technically winter boost at 15psi is not the same as 15psi in the summer, because the turbo can "grab" more air because of the density of the air? Please correct me if I am wrong. I am just trying to understand why fuel pressure drops


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1500psi seems like a high number, would the motor blow if the pressure got too low or would the computer pull boost to stop it from happening ?


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That is actually low when we are looking for 2200PSI. If pressure drops too far and it leans out you run the risk of engine damage.
 
Ok, so there is no safety net built into the computer, I wasn't sure if that was a possibility. So what is the best way to add extra fuel for a daily driving vehicle? I know some people use meth, but how long does a tank last in a spirited driving style?


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There is to some degree but you don't want to rely on that. WM works great otherwise you take boost down for the winter.

I would guess 2 weeks or sp unless you are at WOT all of the time.
 
WM? Is that meth? Where is meth purchased? I've heard of people using window washer fluid because it has a high percentage of meth. Does anybody here use it?


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That would prob be cheaper than buying 100% meth I would imagine.. I saw you sell snow meth kits, is there a big advantage with the stage 2 over stage 1?


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I can tell you that on my 2013, I was probably E45ish on an E30 tune during a zero degree day and the car shut itself down. I immediately blended down and the issue never happened again. You don't know unless you push the envelope, right? LOL.

That being said, IIRC we saw some fairly low pressure and it was able to maintain AFR. The 2015 seems to be more robust with the rail pressure so far but I don't know if this was due to the programming changes stated in the EPA certification application, the ACES fuel catalyst I've been playing with, or both. FYI My last set of logs were on a 48 degree day.

Even though the 2013 held AFR, I think it is important that rail pressure remains high. I  read some research indicating too much E in DI injection has a propensity for wall wetting. Wall wetting causes preignition which we all know is undesirable. My assumption is that rail pressure decreases, atomization does as well which will only increase the chances of wall wetting to occur.

What I am curious about is whether we need as much enrichment at WOT with the E directly injected. All the research I've studied points to no. I also have a recent datalog where the car was kind of wonky (not bad, just different) but was at or near stoich a good part of the run without knock. If we can indeed back the enrichment down safely that should restore some rail pressure. If this strategy works at WOT then the same thinking could be applied to part throttle and cruising so there is a possibility of having a badass corn injected SHO that rivals or even bests the MPG of straight gas. Now wouldn't that be something?



 
BTW F8L....I've never understood the whole fuel requirement when cold issue. In my mind, you are shooting for the same torque targets so it shouldn't change.

Lo and behold, I just read that the reason is that during the winter there are further oxygenates added besides ethanol that further enlean the mixture starting out.

Makes perfect sense now. Hope that helps.

 
FoMoCoSHO said:
I can tell you that on my 2013, I was probably E45ish on an E30 tune during a zero degree day and the car shut itself down. I immediately blended down and the issue never happened again. You don't know unless you push the envelope, right? LOL.

That being said, IIRC we saw some fairly low pressure and it was able to maintain AFR. The 2015 seems to be more robust with the rail pressure so far but I don't know if this was due to the programming changes stated in the EPA certification application, the ACES fuel catalyst I've been playing with, or both. FYI My last set of logs were on a 48 degree day.

Even though the 2013 held AFR, I think it is important that rail pressure remains high. I  read some research indicating too much E in DI injection has a propensity for wall wetting. Wall wetting causes preignition which we all know is undesirable. My assumption is that rail pressure decreases, atomization does as well which will only increase the chances of wall wetting to occur.

What I am curious about is whether we need as much enrichment at WOT with the E directly injected. All the research I've studied points to no. I also have a recent datalog where the car was kind of wonky (not bad, just different) but was at or near stoich a good part of the run without knock. If we can indeed back the enrichment down safely that should restore some rail pressure. If this strategy works at WOT then the same thinking could be applied to part throttle and cruising so there is a possibility of having a badass corn injected SHO that rivals or even bests the MPG of straight gas. Now wouldn't that be something?
I don't plan on running any more than e18, maybe I should just let well enough alone for the winter and throw some corn at it in the spring. What you are saying sounds like it makes sense to me, but I am no tuning professional.


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FoMoCoSHO said:
BTW F8L....I've never understood the whole fuel requirement when cold issue. In my mind, you are shooting for the same torque targets so it shouldn't change.

Lo and behold, I just read that the reason is that during the winter there are further oxygenates added besides ethanol that further enlean the mixture starting out.

Makes perfect sense now. Hope that helps.
When you were running your highest mix in the winter, how low did you pressure get?


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Maybe a combo of things...i never thought about the fuel itself being an issue....but if u fill the cylinder with 100 degree air and fill the cylinder with 20 degree air the 20 degree air would contain more o2 molecules requiring more fuel to achieve the same lambda readings after combustion as measure by the 02 sensors....that makes sense to me why colder air requires more fuel being delivered thus lowering fuel pressure because injector duty cycle increases
 
ajpturbo said:
Maybe a combo of things...i never thought about the fuel itself being an issue....but if u fill the cylinder with 100 degree air and fill the cylinder with 20 degree air the 20 degree air would contain more o2 molecules requiring more fuel to achieve the same lambda readings after combustion as measure by the 02 sensors....that makes sense to me why colder air requires more fuel being delivered thus lowering fuel pressure because injector duty cycle increases
This is exactly how I see it!!! Just didn't explain it that well. Makes perfect sense in my head.. Lol


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f8tlSHO said:
FoMoCoSHO said:
BTW F8L....I've never understood the whole fuel requirement when cold issue. In my mind, you are shooting for the same torque targets so it shouldn't change.

Lo and behold, I just read that the reason is that during the winter there are further oxygenates added besides ethanol that further enlean the mixture starting out.

Makes perfect sense now. Hope that helps.
When you were running your highest mix in the winter, how low did you pressure get?


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Honestly no idea, I wasn't logging when it occurred. What I do know is it happened on WOT downshifts right into my fuel challenged areas and  KR pegged and the car basically shut down (I assume it shut down the throttle) I immediately blended down and it never happened again. 

I suspect I was south of 1k when the ECM said NO.

I looked at the last log from the 2013 and had a couple dips to 1450psi. This was at E20. Car was running great, no knock. Never got it to the track due to trading up.

It was running more timing and boost and AFR was set at .82

 
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