thatsmrgimp2u
New member
A bung or two for a boost source would be sweet when these things actually come out.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Rev Xtreme after market Throttle Body
- Thread starter kbeck59
- Start date
There are many pieces to this developing jigsaw puzzle ....
I am found of saying " if there is a will there is a way " , remember that there is a well known vendor ( per 4DR ) that is looking into developing a better IC , at least for the SHO .
As long as the pieces come together in the end , I don't care how the Puzzle is built .
I am found of saying " if there is a will there is a way " , remember that there is a well known vendor ( per 4DR ) that is looking into developing a better IC , at least for the SHO .
As long as the pieces come together in the end , I don't care how the Puzzle is built .
black99lightning
New member
crash712us said:
GT500's have twin 60's and pick up big power going to the Cobra jet twin 65. Even more with larger blowers. I think there could be power to be had with our cars, just not sure how much. Also I think a tune would be needed.
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
A bigger throttle body combined with a throttle body spacer should be worth 50 awhp.
thatsmrgimp2u
New member
Is that a joke?
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
SRT82ECOBOOST
New member
100% joke
thatsmrgimp2u
New member
Oh thank god... I was wondering if you experienced some unicorn stuff with bigger tb's on your JSRT. I know they can put down very impressive numbers, but didn't think tb's were part of that equation.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
thatsmrgimp2u
New member
In all seriousness, with the stock intake setup and restrictive intercooler, I'd bet its less than 5hp. Increasing plenum volume has minimal impact on turbo vehicles. I can see potential in the bigger throttle body, but only after the other bottlenecks are remedied.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
HotRodLinc
New member
SwampRat said:
I had one installed on my 2003 Cobra Terminator supercharged 4 valve 4.6 and it improved seat of the pants throttle response but not much more. I loved the sound and the feel but don't expect much more.
On the caddies we pick up 20-35 HP from 4.5" intake and 102mm tB (mine is sitting in the garage waiting for more ports) but the V is supercharged and it's the inlet to the supercharger we're increasing airflow to. I don't know if these will make a gain or not but would love to test the premise.
Tuner Boost
New member
We still need an EB F150 in FL to do the dyno testing on the EB version.
Here is on the CTS-V (not touching the housing or snout of the SC) just bolting on w/out tuning:
I also wanted to share the technology behind the RX?VMax CNC pattern ported TB's. The diameter alone is not all that affects flow and velocity, but the manipulation of the surface barrier. Most all TB's OEM or aftermarket (and Mike will have results on the CTS'V to show)
Below is a video of the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDbVy4Hum1c
Many may remember the Myth Busters MPG test using the "dimple effect" of reducing surface friction? Same has been used in everything from golf balls to stealth jets.
Since the smoother, and shiner a surface is, the more area for airflow to create friction, which disrupts the efficiency and reduces velocity (as critical to power as CFM of flow, if not more). In the 70's and 80's we used to spend hours polishing all out porting work to a mirror finish under the assumption the smoother, the better. It was not until wet flow benches and CNC porting that we discovered how wrong we were. In fact by accident NHRA teams in the 80's that had swapped on heads w/out polishing...just the rough surface from porting, ran quicker than ever before and the dyno testing later affirmed how polishing actually hurt power due to the vortices created from this surface drag.
Now we go a bit further as most throttle bodies are not a even straight through bore, but have dips and peaks, etc. so we have to analyze how these affect the flow, and then manipulate it by varying the aggressiveness, shape, and amount of texture so the end result is greatly improved efficiency of the flow, and CFM flow #'s and velocity are increased so in some cases the gains will be greater than a larger diameter TB in comparison.
Hope this helps!
Here is on the CTS-V (not touching the housing or snout of the SC) just bolting on w/out tuning:
I also wanted to share the technology behind the RX?VMax CNC pattern ported TB's. The diameter alone is not all that affects flow and velocity, but the manipulation of the surface barrier. Most all TB's OEM or aftermarket (and Mike will have results on the CTS'V to show)
Below is a video of the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDbVy4Hum1c
Many may remember the Myth Busters MPG test using the "dimple effect" of reducing surface friction? Same has been used in everything from golf balls to stealth jets.
Since the smoother, and shiner a surface is, the more area for airflow to create friction, which disrupts the efficiency and reduces velocity (as critical to power as CFM of flow, if not more). In the 70's and 80's we used to spend hours polishing all out porting work to a mirror finish under the assumption the smoother, the better. It was not until wet flow benches and CNC porting that we discovered how wrong we were. In fact by accident NHRA teams in the 80's that had swapped on heads w/out polishing...just the rough surface from porting, ran quicker than ever before and the dyno testing later affirmed how polishing actually hurt power due to the vortices created from this surface drag.
Now we go a bit further as most throttle bodies are not a even straight through bore, but have dips and peaks, etc. so we have to analyze how these affect the flow, and then manipulate it by varying the aggressiveness, shape, and amount of texture so the end result is greatly improved efficiency of the flow, and CFM flow #'s and velocity are increased so in some cases the gains will be greater than a larger diameter TB in comparison.
Hope this helps!
So you are saying that while the actual surface area is increased, the available surface area for air to interact with (cause friction) is significantly decreased? Is it just dimpling that is effective, or is there a pattern (say, a spiral) that needs to be incorporated also?
Tuner Boost
New member
Correct. What the pattern does is break up the friction layer so the majority of the air passing is undisturbed. When wet flow high speed video is replayed in slo-mo it shows on a smooth surface there is quite a bit of disturbance from vortices created from the air next to the surface dragged slower, and this has a negative effect on the CFM of flow as well as the velocity (speed) as it is a bit "jumbled up". When the same video is done with the textured surface it acts like tiny ball bearings breaking the drag, or resistance so only a tiny outer portion shows disruption....the vast majority is intact and undisturbed. Think a sharks skin. Natyres most perfect friction proof surface feels like sand paper, and here is what it looks like magnified:
Or the stepped hulls of race boats do similar.
Now if you go to aggressive in depth and design, you loose any of the gains from the texture, so it is quite the science.
Now on the throttle bodies, we vary the shape, aggressiveness, depth depending on if the throat section needs to be slowed, blended, or left alone (as where there are deep dips and peaks as this can have a negative effect on tip-in). The goal is much crisper quicker throttle response and power throughout the band.
The least effective end result is the LLT GM DI V6, and the best is the Corvettes with straight air intakes (those with a 90* bend like the V and Camaros, etc. are a bit less than the same engine in the C5 & C6 corvette where the intake bridge is straight).
But all have some pretty remarkable throttle response improvements, and the hesitation many V6 DI engine experience between 1000-2000 RPM disappears as well.
Mike has a RX TB for his V, see how it responds.
Or the stepped hulls of race boats do similar.
Now if you go to aggressive in depth and design, you loose any of the gains from the texture, so it is quite the science.
Now on the throttle bodies, we vary the shape, aggressiveness, depth depending on if the throat section needs to be slowed, blended, or left alone (as where there are deep dips and peaks as this can have a negative effect on tip-in). The goal is much crisper quicker throttle response and power throughout the band.
The least effective end result is the LLT GM DI V6, and the best is the Corvettes with straight air intakes (those with a 90* bend like the V and Camaros, etc. are a bit less than the same engine in the C5 & C6 corvette where the intake bridge is straight).
But all have some pretty remarkable throttle response improvements, and the hesitation many V6 DI engine experience between 1000-2000 RPM disappears as well.
Mike has a RX TB for his V, see how it responds.
I have a stock '14 SHO (K&N drop in, but could go back to stock filter) and would be willing to test. I will take it to a dyno for pulls at stock, perform the swap, and conduct pulls with the new TB. This would be a good way for a baseline on stock tune, check for codes, etc.
Tuner Boost
New member
No need to port match unless transitioning from larger to smaller id.
We are finishing the F-150 version right now and then will start on the SHO version.
Here is a good video to show the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPk92Q3Bzmc#t=85
We are finishing the F-150 version right now and then will start on the SHO version.
Here is a good video to show the process:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPk92Q3Bzmc#t=85
I think Tracy's write up helps explain why the k&n performs so poorly.
The triple whammy...
1. Heat soak from the metal pipe and open cone.
2. Removal of the OEM bellows which is a cheap yet effective way to straighten and accelerate the air after the turbulent filter.
3. Smooth pipe which actually slows down airflow even further.
It makes sense now why I have always felt that throttle response suffers when it is on the car.
The triple whammy...
1. Heat soak from the metal pipe and open cone.
2. Removal of the OEM bellows which is a cheap yet effective way to straighten and accelerate the air after the turbulent filter.
3. Smooth pipe which actually slows down airflow even further.
It makes sense now why I have always felt that throttle response suffers when it is on the car.