I wonder who has the highest mileage SHO on here and any input about this thay may have ? I know when I changed out my 3bar MAP on the upper intake it had a tad bit of oil dripping from the one I removed. I hate to spend the money on something unecessary, but I sure don't want my engine gunked up either. I plan to keep mine for a long time.
Testing Air Oil seperators
- Thread starter ShoBoat
- Start date
crash712us
New member
The alternative, if your want to keep valves from coking up would be regular scheduled maintenance. Such as B&G service or 3m fuel system cleaning at least every 15k.
IHeartGroceries
New member
The intake manifold looks pretty simple to yank off.
I don't see why the valves can't be cleaned at home. And of course, the intake tract and intercooler can be cleaned easily.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
I don't see why the valves can't be cleaned at home. And of course, the intake tract and intercooler can be cleaned easily.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
SHOdded said:IHeartGroceries, do I sense a "How-To" in the making? Hint, hintBTW, is the intake manifold 1 piece or 2 pieces? We have a 2 pc on the Edge.
Intake manifold on the transverse is one piece .
Shodded , I have a confession to make . Before I bought my SHO I was looking hot n heavy at the 13 Edge but as you know and I found out while looking , there is no 3.5 EB for it .... sigh ..... wish they could shoehorn one it to it .
Just really like the looks of the Edge .
It's pretty fun with the base 3.5L actually, but we have been pushing for the 3.5EB for some time Trying to keep my foot out of it to keep the MPGs high, soooo tempting!!! Rumors are though that the V6 will meet its demise in favor of the smaller 4-banger EBs, maybe a 2.5L (makes me glad to have my V6)!
There have been a couple of one-off turbo projects, one private and one for SEMA, but nothing even close to the wondrous EB motor.
Official Moroso Air/Oil Separator video for the V:
Moroso TV: Moroso Air/Oil Separator / Catch Can test 2009 Cadillac CTS-V www.moroso.com
Independent user review on a Mustang:
Moroso Oil Catch Can Review - 2013 Mustang GT
Trying to keep my foot out of it to keep the MPGs high, soooo tempting!!! Rumors are though that the V6 will meet its demise in favor of the smaller 4-banger EBs, maybe a 2.5L (makes me glad to have my V6)!There have been a couple of one-off turbo projects, one private and one for SEMA, but nothing even close to the wondrous EB motor.
Official Moroso Air/Oil Separator video for the V:
Moroso TV: Moroso Air/Oil Separator / Catch Can test 2009 Cadillac CTS-V www.moroso.com
Independent user review on a Mustang:
Moroso Oil Catch Can Review - 2013 Mustang GT
Well, while it's not a SHO… my daughter in law's Edge sport is pretty spirited and is a truly fun cross-over to drive.
Manu… I fear your right about the V6… I too am glad i have it and hope Ford will continue to develop it. BUT, if they don't the objective things we learn from all these little experiments we do become ever more important!…….Like this thread on Testing Oil Separators
Manu… I fear your right about the V6… I too am glad i have it and hope Ford will continue to develop it. BUT, if they don't the objective things we learn from all these little experiments we do become ever more important!…….Like this thread on Testing Oil Separators
Ok so after about 500km I pulled the units off the car, and guess what I found? Nothing! when I mean nothing I mean nothing nada not even dirty. I wiped the units down to see if they had any residue on the inside and it was clean? Now either these are the worst catch cans ever or possibly I haven't given it enough time. But I expected to find something at least a bit of residue. See the attached pics, this has got me wondering. During the Ecoboost torture test, they ran that thing at full boost for pretty much 24 hours right? You would think that that poor engine would be running on oil after just a few miles. Unless they faked it? I am starting to wonder if most of the oil that we are seeing in the throttle body and intake is coming from leaky turbo seals and not the PCV system. According to ford "some oil" is normal coming from the turbo seals. I had cleaned the intake manifold 2 weeks ago and I am not seeing any evidence of oil behind the throttle body where the inlet is from the rear PCV port. But I did see evidence of oil on the TB? I will continue to run the catch cans for another 3 weeks. I think I might pull the tube off my rear turbo and see if there is evidence of oil there. This would be up stream of the "clean side" and would be impossible to get anything from the PCV back there.
Or one other thing, I am running 1/2 tube and fittings throughout. I wasn't crazy about the reduction in flow for the stock 3/8 fittings that the kit came with. The stock hose and fittings is 1/2.
Or one other thing, I am running 1/2 tube and fittings throughout. I wasn't crazy about the reduction in flow for the stock 3/8 fittings that the kit came with. The stock hose and fittings is 1/2.
I wouldn't expect much of anything in only 310 miles of testing .
It has been conclusively proven that the PCV system on the SHO and other DI engines contributes to the detrimental inherent issues that DI engines have .
I have stated that the torture test / tear down video that Ford uses is nothing more than a marketing tool and I love my Ford's.
Just as many here have done the the BOV VTA ( no no says EPA ) the only way to eliminate the deposits and harm associated with PCV systems is to use some type of containment system or vent the crankcase to air . This could be done ....... Not an ideal solution but for off road , its common place .
BG's real world 60,000 mile testing of there company owned 2010 SHO proves this .
http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/
Perhaps longer testing on your part may show accumulation , my guess is even though the Moroso cans MAY not be the ideal choice ; the plumbing choice or PCV routing needs to be reconsidered .
You MAY end up with accumulation results with this test with more time and driving .
Weather or not this oil is bulding up from leaky turbo seals or a poorly designed PCV system or a combination of the two , you still have a need to remove it from the intake CAC and associated plumbing to prevent these harmfull deposits and other internal component damage from occuring .
I plan on keeping my SHO a VERY long time and anything I can do to keep things purring is worth the investment .
Tracy readily admits there are SOME OCC's on the market that are good ones but most are garbage.
I appreciate his honesty but most of us here are not knowledgeable enough to buy one from whomever else and hook the plumbing up correctly .
Tracy at RX did a fix as he determined the initial install on painterpats Flex by him was faulty . We will see soon whether or not this has been remedied , I think it will end up with possitive results .
His F150 system works as stated , I think its simply a matter of working out the bugs .
It has been conclusively proven that the PCV system on the SHO and other DI engines contributes to the detrimental inherent issues that DI engines have .
I have stated that the torture test / tear down video that Ford uses is nothing more than a marketing tool and I love my Ford's.
Just as many here have done the the BOV VTA ( no no says EPA ) the only way to eliminate the deposits and harm associated with PCV systems is to use some type of containment system or vent the crankcase to air . This could be done ....... Not an ideal solution but for off road , its common place .
BG's real world 60,000 mile testing of there company owned 2010 SHO proves this .
http://www.bgprod.com/bgfueltest/
Perhaps longer testing on your part may show accumulation , my guess is even though the Moroso cans MAY not be the ideal choice ; the plumbing choice or PCV routing needs to be reconsidered .
You MAY end up with accumulation results with this test with more time and driving .
Weather or not this oil is bulding up from leaky turbo seals or a poorly designed PCV system or a combination of the two , you still have a need to remove it from the intake CAC and associated plumbing to prevent these harmfull deposits and other internal component damage from occuring .
I plan on keeping my SHO a VERY long time and anything I can do to keep things purring is worth the investment .
Tracy readily admits there are SOME OCC's on the market that are good ones but most are garbage.
I appreciate his honesty but most of us here are not knowledgeable enough to buy one from whomever else and hook the plumbing up correctly .
Tracy at RX did a fix as he determined the initial install on painterpats Flex by him was faulty . We will see soon whether or not this has been remedied , I think it will end up with possitive results .
His F150 system works as stated , I think its simply a matter of working out the bugs .
panther427
New member
SwampRat said:
Now that's what i am talking about! That's a ton of data on the SHO. If we could get this kind of data on Catch cans that's where we could all put this to bed. I am defiantly going to get this done on mine.
Great link thanks SwampRat.
Hey the one thing not mentioned in the Torture test on the EB was what maintenance they did on it. I wonder if it included the BG service? Or something similar. Also when looking at the teardown pics did anyone else notice that the TB looked almost brand new? Crap mine has nowhere near as many miles and it doesn't look like that.
Thanks ShoBoat! I know we're all chomping at the bit for results to come in. As far as 350 miles being enough to see some results; have we all forgotten about the F-150 video? That was 350 miles and he filled up most of a mason jar! Not saying you should be seeing THAT much or not, but I agree that I expected to find SOMETHING in there...residue at least, regardless of the Moroso's effectiveness.
...very interesting.
...very interesting.
Shoboat, is there filter media in the Moroso catchcan setup? If so, is it possible that the vapors are condensed into the filter media and just haven't made their way into the container yet? Pressure drop caused by larger tubing affecting the effectiveness? Just throwing some ideas out there.
Tuner Boost
New member
Sorry I am late to this thread. You could have saved the time on the Morso test as there are videos and others that have done it already.
Same as the JLT.
Lets start at the Moroso (or Billet Prototypes, Diablosport, and 30 some others branded from the same manufacturer).
If you install a simple air compressor separator....$10-$15 behind it, you will see more passes through that design than it catches, and very simple to see why.
It has only app 1.5 oz's of capacity. This does not allow the flow through (velocity) to slow enough to prevent the Bernoulli effect from carrying droplets through with the flow. It is impossible. (The RX standard can is 12 oz's, Monster is over 22).
One weeks drain from the shop ecoboost f150 is 6-7 ozs's on average:
And side by side w/RX bottom:
Also look at the design:
Which side is the inlet, and which is the outlet? The coalescing media will trap oil on the side you use as the inlet, but it will also trap that same oil on the side used as the outlet (try this at home right now and see if I am BSing).
Take a wet wash cloth, put it to your mouth, now suck on it. What happens? Now, the flow and amount of suction from the PCV system is many times what you can produce with your mouth. Think about this.
Now, watch this video. This is on a Caddy CTSv with a ring/blow-by issue. Now a PD blower has least suction at idle, and greatest at top RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9klkDCItEY
See app 1/2 way how the oil is dripping down the right side at low rpms, and at high rpms it is pulled across from right to left and up and out the left side. That shows the Bernoulli effect over powering any possible chance for this to retain most of the oil and other compounds a proper separator will.
Now on to JLT (and ALL of these are first class quality in machining, appearance, etc, but no one considered all the pricniplas and functions needed to design an effective can. They all catch oil, even a beer can with 2 fittings will trap nearly as much as the Moroso if you test, you will see.
So, watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H257bOs3gn8
This is an excellent way to test, but they are using a GT 500 Mustang, again, a PD blower similar to the caddy CTS-V. But they never go above idle, so suction is at its lowest. We duplicated this test and as soon as you rev up on the dyno even with almost no oil already trapped, a good amount pulled right through.
Go back and watch it again. Now we tried this with a NA car that has suction at the highest at idle (same as a Turbo would) and it starts to show oil pull through as soon as you start to introduce the oil. You dont have to take my word for it, try this yourself. It does not involve much cost, just a little time.
No one has put more time and research into these designs than we have, period.
Look at how the RX can is designed:
We take and purchase and test every can on the market we see, then dissect and determine why some do well, and others do poorly.
Here are how they rank. Any not listed allowed far to much pull through to be considered effective:
RX
Saiku Micchi (SMC)
Elite Engineering's E2
Apex.
And thats it.
We have the same car we know the amount of blow by and what it produces. We run every can with the RX can behind it so we can measure the primary can and then what the RX caught behind it AFTER it did its best. The RX can will catch nearly as much, or more than almost every can out there AFTER the vapors have already passed the primary can, EXCEPT those listed above as they are also excellent cans we have tested and seen first hand. Now we also do the test in reverse, and the RX catches all, or nearly all the compounds letting none through (unless an excessive blow-by engine then trace amounts do make it past). We have had this challenge out there for years, and all those that have done it independently have seen the same results (most never tell the results afterwards though) and have never been embarrassed (imagine how it would look) by the results.
Want more proof?
Every other can listed is a direct competitor. most very unfriendly to us even though we post they are the best.
Contact Elite Engineering, and ask their opinion of RX's Tracy's engineering knowledge and qualifications on this subject (they are a direct competitor)
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/elite-engineering-catch-can/
We have done the testing. The Elite is app the same price as the ones that dont function well, and is just about as effective as the RX (the E2 version).
So, try this, email or call Elite direct (the other wont talk about it, or are negative and dismiss the testing) and see what they say.
I can build a race trans good, but I am far from the best, so I defer to the experts I respect. I can tune well, but am far from an expert so I defer to those I do respect as the best. I can build and set up rear diff gears as good as most, but I am far from the best. I have been installing and using Methanol inject systems for ages and know as much as most, but I am far from the best....I consider Julio from Alky Control the best...he has forgotten more than I know. I only claim engine building , forced induction designs, and crankcase evacuation as areas I am considered among the most knowledgeable. And only am above average in engine building so that leaves only 2 areas I am considered, and consider myself one of the authorities in that area.
Hope this helps....and please watch the videos and consider all I am sharing. And those still skeptics, Contact Elite's CEO Steve and ask his opinion. For any others, I know I can't please or convince all, so as this is a free country, use whatever solution you are comfortable with. That is the main thing. Your peace of mind.
Cheers!!
Same as the JLT.
Lets start at the Moroso (or Billet Prototypes, Diablosport, and 30 some others branded from the same manufacturer).
If you install a simple air compressor separator....$10-$15 behind it, you will see more passes through that design than it catches, and very simple to see why.
It has only app 1.5 oz's of capacity. This does not allow the flow through (velocity) to slow enough to prevent the Bernoulli effect from carrying droplets through with the flow. It is impossible. (The RX standard can is 12 oz's, Monster is over 22).
One weeks drain from the shop ecoboost f150 is 6-7 ozs's on average:
And side by side w/RX bottom:
Also look at the design:
Which side is the inlet, and which is the outlet? The coalescing media will trap oil on the side you use as the inlet, but it will also trap that same oil on the side used as the outlet (try this at home right now and see if I am BSing).
Take a wet wash cloth, put it to your mouth, now suck on it. What happens? Now, the flow and amount of suction from the PCV system is many times what you can produce with your mouth. Think about this.
Now, watch this video. This is on a Caddy CTSv with a ring/blow-by issue. Now a PD blower has least suction at idle, and greatest at top RPM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9klkDCItEY
See app 1/2 way how the oil is dripping down the right side at low rpms, and at high rpms it is pulled across from right to left and up and out the left side. That shows the Bernoulli effect over powering any possible chance for this to retain most of the oil and other compounds a proper separator will.
Now on to JLT (and ALL of these are first class quality in machining, appearance, etc, but no one considered all the pricniplas and functions needed to design an effective can. They all catch oil, even a beer can with 2 fittings will trap nearly as much as the Moroso if you test, you will see.
So, watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H257bOs3gn8
This is an excellent way to test, but they are using a GT 500 Mustang, again, a PD blower similar to the caddy CTS-V. But they never go above idle, so suction is at its lowest. We duplicated this test and as soon as you rev up on the dyno even with almost no oil already trapped, a good amount pulled right through.
Go back and watch it again. Now we tried this with a NA car that has suction at the highest at idle (same as a Turbo would) and it starts to show oil pull through as soon as you start to introduce the oil. You dont have to take my word for it, try this yourself. It does not involve much cost, just a little time.
No one has put more time and research into these designs than we have, period.
Look at how the RX can is designed:
We take and purchase and test every can on the market we see, then dissect and determine why some do well, and others do poorly.
Here are how they rank. Any not listed allowed far to much pull through to be considered effective:
RX
Saiku Micchi (SMC)
Elite Engineering's E2
Apex.
And thats it.
We have the same car we know the amount of blow by and what it produces. We run every can with the RX can behind it so we can measure the primary can and then what the RX caught behind it AFTER it did its best. The RX can will catch nearly as much, or more than almost every can out there AFTER the vapors have already passed the primary can, EXCEPT those listed above as they are also excellent cans we have tested and seen first hand. Now we also do the test in reverse, and the RX catches all, or nearly all the compounds letting none through (unless an excessive blow-by engine then trace amounts do make it past). We have had this challenge out there for years, and all those that have done it independently have seen the same results (most never tell the results afterwards though) and have never been embarrassed (imagine how it would look) by the results.
Want more proof?
Every other can listed is a direct competitor. most very unfriendly to us even though we post they are the best.
Contact Elite Engineering, and ask their opinion of RX's Tracy's engineering knowledge and qualifications on this subject (they are a direct competitor)
http://www.eliteengineeringusa.com/elite-engineering-catch-can/
We have done the testing. The Elite is app the same price as the ones that dont function well, and is just about as effective as the RX (the E2 version).
So, try this, email or call Elite direct (the other wont talk about it, or are negative and dismiss the testing) and see what they say.
I can build a race trans good, but I am far from the best, so I defer to the experts I respect. I can tune well, but am far from an expert so I defer to those I do respect as the best. I can build and set up rear diff gears as good as most, but I am far from the best. I have been installing and using Methanol inject systems for ages and know as much as most, but I am far from the best....I consider Julio from Alky Control the best...he has forgotten more than I know. I only claim engine building , forced induction designs, and crankcase evacuation as areas I am considered among the most knowledgeable. And only am above average in engine building so that leaves only 2 areas I am considered, and consider myself one of the authorities in that area.
Hope this helps....and please watch the videos and consider all I am sharing. And those still skeptics, Contact Elite's CEO Steve and ask his opinion. For any others, I know I can't please or convince all, so as this is a free country, use whatever solution you are comfortable with. That is the main thing. Your peace of mind.
Cheers!!
Tuner Boost
New member
Oh, one other thing. Only the RX system corrects the PCV systems evacuation issue, adding another can only dealing with the vapors after they have accumulated in the crankcase already and contaminated the oil.
Some of the other cans can be modified to do the same, but you will need the checkvalves, fittings, lines, etc. to accomplish this.
The RX system is complete with all needed.
To compare, you would want to use the RX single valve can for $199 if you dont want to correct the PCV system flaw.
Some of the other cans can be modified to do the same, but you will need the checkvalves, fittings, lines, etc. to accomplish this.
The RX system is complete with all needed.
To compare, you would want to use the RX single valve can for $199 if you dont want to correct the PCV system flaw.