Thoughts and videos for Meth systems

F

FistyMcgee

New member
Hey, I know some people for some unknown reason say meth is dangerous, damaging, and doesn't actually improve power. I doubt anyone here would be of that mindset but I wanted to share some ideas.

Anyone consider installing a meth tank in where the spare tire should be? I don't want to use a spare, if I lose a tire by some freak accident, I can get a flatbed for free. I would prefer to remove it and put a spun fiberglass or 3d printed bladder, and pump in the same space. this would be really great to keep from having to refill all the time. 2 ways to do this, pure meth or premixed meth/water, second option would be a split bladder with one fill port for water and one for meth. someone who has actually had the experience with running a system let me know how retarded or good this idea is please.

Also:
next time someone says water/meth is a hoax show them this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sIR-6SNGw
I love this guy's videos, he is really smart and knows how to explain how things work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lECbk4TwU
 
Sadly, I don't have E85 anywhere close to where I live and no 93 octane at all outside of a track. I use BND automotive's special sauce for fuel additive and it could possibly help, I do believe it keeps the car's internals cleaner.

I like the tank level switch which was one other point I wanted to make... we could use a level switch to adjust the trim and back off the tuning condition if you run dry on meth in the middle of a trip. It would be really nasty to run a meth tune with no meth from what I have been reading, at least in my opinion. That issue is one thing preventing me from going to get meth right now. I want to go a step farther, and use that whole wheel well as a tank. this is definitely a good start, if nothing else I could just use two tanks and add a cross-feed tube to drain from one to another. No doubt it would be simpler than fabricating my own system. Demand for the systems are so low that it is almost not worth the effort in engineering a new bladder to fit in place of the spare tire.

 
Meth is dangerous: when spraying, you reduce the amount of fuel. If something unexpected happens and the meth spray abruptly stops you've put yourself in a predicament.

Meth is damaging. It's corrosive. Why do you think meth pumps have a lifespan?

Meth doesn't make power. It allows for more to be made as a side effect of it's cooling and octane increase. It's an indirect process, by contrast nitrous directly makes power and is sold in xxhp shots.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 
J-Will said:
Meth is dangerous: when spraying, you reduce the amount of fuel. If something unexpected happens and the meth spray abruptly stops you've put yourself in a predicament.

Meth is damaging. It's corrosive. Why do you think meth pumps have a lifespan?

Meth doesn't make power. It allows for more to be made as a side effect of it's cooling and octane increase. It's an indirect process, by contrast nitrous directly makes power and is sold in xxhp shots.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Good point, I mentioned I wanted to mitigate risk by reading the Meth level so as to adjust the fuel trim and tune to account for lack of meth.

https://www.afdc.energy.gov/pdfs/mit_methanol_white_paper.pdf

starting on page 44(table 10), then again in section 10(page 58) is very good data. I am sorry I don't know what your background is but Gasoline is corrosive as well and I understand that Meth is damaging to the internals of engines not designed to support meth. If I understand correctly, the 3.5 tt is built to support meth. the lines that run the meth do need to be specially designed for the purpose.

Page 58 below:
"Work done at EPA’s National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory with small-displacement, stoichiometric light-duty engines [Brusstar1] demonstrated improved brake thermal efficiencies over the baseline diesel engine and low steady state NOx, HC and CO, along with inherently low PM emissions. The engine is also expected to have significant system cost advantages compared with a diesel engine of comparable torque/power, mainly by virtue of its low-pressure port fuel injection (PFI) system and simpler after treatment. While recognizing the considerable challenge associated with cold start, the alcohol-fueled engine nonetheless offers the advantages of being a more efficient, cleaner alternative to gasoline and diesel engines.
An interesting alternative to dedicated methanol vehicles, which are needed to achieve the efficiency advantages described above, is to use two tanks, the main tank filled with gasoline and the second tank filled with methanol. This concept, Direct Injection Alcohol Boosted (DIAB), uses direct injection (DI) of methanol when the engine is prone to knock (usually at conditions of high torque). [Cohn] The charge cooling, which derives from the high latent heat of vaporization of methanol, is primarily responsible for the knock suppression. Due to the charge cooling from the DI process, the effective octane rating [Bromberg1] greatly exceeds the chemical octane rating that these fuels would exhibit using conventional induction methods such as port fuel injection (PFI). In the DIAB concept, DI of the knock suppressing fuel is used only in the amount required to prevent knock and gasoline is supplied to the cylinder by conventional PFI. Since the engine operates at stoichiometry (using a typical oxygen feedback), a very high specific torque output can be produced while emissions can be maintained at low levels through the well-proven and relatively simple three-way catalyst system without the use of EGR as a major diluent. The technology opens the possibility of a spark-ignited gasoline engine operating at high compression ratio (12 - 14) and high boost ratios of 2.0- 2.5 times ambient pressure, which is sufficient to produce a torque output equivalent to or greater than more highly turbocharged heavy duty diesel engines operating lean with significant EGR. The methanol-boosted DIAB engine can be almost as efficient (as measured by BTE, brake thermal efficiency) as a diesel and have comparable specific CO2 emissions as well. The concept has been demonstrated and proven in systematic dynamometer tests at Ford [Stein]. In addition, Honda has independently investigated the concept [Kamio]."
 
I'm not trying to discourage the use of meth. In fact, I believe it's a great first major mod to be done after bolt ons and tune. I'm simply adding complexity to the opening of the first post for transparency.

With the addition of aftermarket fuel pumps the need for meth has been slightly reduce. Not negated, but reduced. Additionally, I'm still hopeful that a better CAC will hit the market, again further reducing but not negating the need for meth (those of us with the drivers assist package may be SOL). I had wanted to do a DP with a 7th nozzle placed just after the CAC, and while still a good plan, and cheaper, is loosing it's appeal.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 
J-Will said:
I'm not trying to discourage the use of meth. In fact, I believe it's a great first major mod to be done after bolt ons and tune. I'm simply adding complexity to the opening of the first post for transparency.

With the addition of aftermarket fuel pumps the need for meth has been slightly reduce. Not negated, but reduced. Additionally, I'm still hopeful that a better CAC will hit the market, again further reducing but not negating the need for meth (those of us with the drivers assist package may be SOL). I had wanted to do a DP with a 7th nozzle placed just after the CAC, and while still a good plan, and cheaper, is loosing it's appeal.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That was something I was also looking into, I saved a link to a 2600 psi high pressure fuel pump from extreme DI, sold through unleashedperformance. it alone is 1800+tax, where meth adds complexity and about 1/3 to 1/2 the initial cost.  a second factor would be the added cost of meth vs cost of higher fuel consumption. if I had working numbers on miles/gal of meth and delta of mileage on equivalent horsepower tune through increased fuel consumption and I can graph it for annual cost for equal performance numbers.
 
Even with the upgraded pump you don't get the octane, cooling, and valve cleaning.

There are safeties that can be utilized in the programming to act as fail safes if the meth pump fails.

The ultimate would be a fuel pump upgrade AND meth.
 
AJP turbo said:
Even with the upgraded pump you don't get the octane, cooling, and valve cleaning.

There are safeties that can be utilized in the programming to act as fail safes if the meth pump fails.

The ultimate would be a fuel pump upgrade AND meth.
Click to expand...
Agreed wholeheartedly!

But then, what in the hell is the point of doing both of those, and throwing more power at it, without any supporting drivetrain upgrades whatsoever?

I love my SHO, but hot damn these drivetrain limitations are proving quite challenging.

Until such upgrades become reality, the platform has reached its' respective limitations. So this discussion, in an over all sense, is really pointless/moot.

**SIGH**

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 
Hence why all future upgrades are on hold. No point in dropping $12K on a motor installed...another $2K on turbos just to gain maybe a few more tenths...

I can buy a beat up fox body and drop a motor in it for that price...

In any event... until as BPD1151 stated we have better drive train parts to handle the power... after Tune, bolt ons, Meth... your pretty much maxed out...
 
I am just curious to see what the voodoo is with this drivetrain that is proving so difficult to overcome.  Is there some revolutionary technology inside the trans, is the PTU maxxxxxxed out, will the driveshaft crumple like a dry leaf, ...?  It is only the niche nature of the market holding the upgrade back, I believe.  Someone balls up and state the technical issues, pleeeeeze.
 
Niche market overall, coupled with no vendors whatsoever, offering upgrades therein.

Repetitive trans failures for those that have run them in those upper 500awhp range(s). Even after rebuilds respectively.

PTU failures.
RDU failures.
Torque Converter failures.

Take your pick Manu.

There are also expected failures in half shafts as well, even if the above are all/each addressed.

But then we would be diving off topic if continuing down that path with this discussion.

Besides lack of vendors stepping up. The challenge of an upgraded, transverse mounted trans, in a less than ideal quantity for said vendors to be interested, is the voodoo entirely.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
bpd1151 said:
Niche market overall, coupled with no vendors whatsoever, offering upgrades therein.

Repetitive trans failures for those that have run them in those upper 500awhp range(s). Even after rebuilds respectively.

PTU failures.
RDU failures.
Torque Converter failures.

Take your pick Manu.

There are also expected failures in half shafts as well, even if the above are all/each addressed.

But then we would be diving off topic if continuing down that path with this discussion.

Besides lack of vendors stepping up. The challenge of an upgraded, transverse mounted trans, in a less than ideal quantity for said vendors to be interested, is the voodoo entirely.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Have you experienced any of the above mentioned failures yet?

I did talk to the other company (drawing a blank on the name.. they offer the stroker kit) and they said if we really want to get the transaxle issues addressed we need to rope in a euro company.. apparently the US is known for its motors and the Euro guys are known for their transmission work...

I wouldn't even know who to talk too...
 
AJP turbo said:
Even with the upgraded pump you don't get the octane, cooling, and valve cleaning.

There are safeties that can be utilized in the programming to act as fail safes if the meth pump fails.

The ultimate would be a fuel pump upgrade AND meth.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree that it would be a worth while venture.. and one that i have thought about a lot... what advantage is the bigger pump going to give me if we can push the stock motor past its breaking point with meth? I run your bloody tune ragged spraying meth likes its candy FWIW.. perfect fuel pressure all the time..

If the meth pump crap the bed, even a bigger fuel pump isn't going to respond fast enough to save the motor if the ECU can't...
 
I myself have not.

Whether that's been due to sheer luck,  or a matter of a stringent maintenance schedule, is not known.

It should be noted that I have never once ran that highest, 617awhp file I have either though, as any of those items I mentioned are expected to break.

This based on others who have tried.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
bpd1151 said:
I myself have not.

Whether that's been due to sheer luck,  or a matter of a stringent maintenance schedule, is not known.

It should be noted that I have never once ran that highest, 617awhp file I have either though, as any of those items I mentioned are expected to break.

This based on others who have tried.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Why is the PTU/RDU more prone to failure if they are set to only handle so much torque from the factory?  I've seen 50% of the engine torque stated before???  I assume that would be a fixed number so when adding power to the engine that max torque number would stay the same or am I wrong?
 
Also, I don't recall a whole lot of failures mentioned here before.  How many of you guys running in the 12's have had any failures in the past? 
 
SilvererSHO said:
Also, I don't recall a whole lot of failures mentioned here before.  How many of you guys running in the 12's have had any failures in the past?
Click to expand...

Hard to tell if it’s the tune or bad luck... there have been a few motors to crap the bed...

PTU is the same... tune or bad luck...

Not sure if there have been enough failures of drivetrain parts at a specific power output to really say..

BPD1151 has been told directly by Ford what the breaking point should be for these drive trains... and so has LMS... and Ecopowerparts... 500 wheel hp/tq seems to be the magic number...

Dunno..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
It's been a long time...social medias are back up...
Replies
2
Views
4K
Ecoboost_xsport
E
C
my 2017 SHO w/PP
2 3 4
Replies
65
Views
28K
SHOdded
S
Z
H&R
Replies
2
Views
4K
Zpak
Z
T
GT350 15.5" Brake Upgrade
Replies
11
Views
15K
SHOdded
S
D
2011 SHO for sale
Replies
9
Views
299
SHOdded
S
Back
Top