Tune degradation????

liteyouup said:
Call people out by name, not " a certain member."  Don't sugar coat it!  LOL
Here at E.B.P.F things work out a little different here,we try to keep our discussions grounded and straight to the point,not outside the box,maybe you spent to much time over the explorer forum,here we have a little more respect for one another,keep it real.
 
ajpturbo said:
Questions like these make me wonder if people really understand what happens with a "tune" when you tune your car. If a tune is set up right, then there is nothing to relearn or revert to. The ECU doesn't store a previous version or a hard code within the ECU that it always will try to go back to.

When a tune is wrote and loaded to a device then flashed to the car the ECU has been completely reformatted and the ECU only knows what values have been inserted into all the various tables, and there are a lot. Even when the person that writes the tune leaves adaptive fuel control on, as long as it's set up correctly then it will adapt to what the tuner has defined in the tables and scalars.

The old tune is GONE when you flash your car, it is however stored in your flash device so you can revert to stock if needed. And for the guys with a 3 bar tune, if the car was in a constant state of trying to revert to stock then it wouldn't run well the closer it's gets to stock and eventually not at all. The values that are changed in a 3 bar tune won't allow the car to run if it was trying to get back to stock

Perhaps you misread the questions; it is not about relearning or reverting back to stock.  Some parameters within the ECU have a range of options, and the code is configured to adapt to the one that fits best in situations.  For example: it is possible that someone who sets their transmission shifts to be hard and fast, but babies their car to have that setting slowly change to a softer shift point figure within the parameters of the ECU.  Or a car knowing which type of gas you put in the tank, and adjusting the KR accordingly.  The point is, the options are not hard fast and static.

While I have not heard of this happening to a car, in theory it is possible. 
 
ajpturbo said:
Questions like these make me wonder if people really understand what happens with a "tune" when you tune your car. If a tune is set up right, then there is nothing to relearn or revert to. The ECU doesn't store a previous version or a hard code within the ECU that it always will try to go back to.

When a tune is wrote and loaded to a device then flashed to the car the ECU has been completely reformatted and the ECU only knows what values have been inserted into all the various tables, and there are a lot. Even when the person that writes the tune leaves adaptive fuel control on, as long as it's set up correctly then it will adapt to what the tuner has defined in the tables and scalars.

The old tune is GONE when you flash your car, it is however stored in your flash device so you can revert to stock if needed. And for the guys with a 3 bar tune, if the car was in a constant state of trying to revert to stock then it wouldn't run well the closer it's gets to stock and eventually not at all. The values that are changed in a 3 bar tune won't allow the car to run if it was trying to get back to stock
Why dont we trying sticking with the topic and keep the discussion factual and grounded,so basically I dont know why you see the need to trump,mention constantly in almost all your posts the negatives of a 3-bar,i try hard to to keep my conversations friendly and factual.and i let people believe what they want to believe,no good will be done here by me proving your misinformed.
 
I have a 3 bar. No worries. Most people's insight in tuning on this forum is horrible. I can tell you what's actually in the tables in the tune. Most people here don't know what an MTF is or have the software to open it. So you won't be able to prove me wrong on much in that department. The adaptive is limited to what is defined in the tables.
 
I guess some of us just like the simplicity if canned tunes as oppose to datalogging,and hopefully your PCM incorporates for all of the calibration constant tables,and not below the value read by the converter,so essentially if you have time on your hands and benefits you,best of luck,also did not see you had a 3-bar based on your sig or avatar.
 
ajpturbo said:
I have a 3 bar. No worries. Most people's insight in tuning on this forum is horrible. I can tell you what's actually in the tables in the tune. Most people here don't know what an MTF is or have the software to open it. So you won't be able to prove me wrong on much in that department. The adaptive is limited to what is defined in the tables.

I dont know what the malfunction is here, but I dont think you understand the original question.
 
So it looks like we can agree that if you're going to the track to try and post the best time you can, that there is some tune degradation. It's not re-writing the tune or anything like that. It's just "smoothing" itself out learning the driving habits. Well, unless your doing 1/4 mile pulls everyday. Then you should be ok.

Rich

 
I thought the 18-20 psi in my sig gave away my having a 3 bar sensor installed.

I get your points, but I get flamed up because I've seen quite a few threads mentioning the idea of a tune losing it's punch. If you are talking .15 second swings in a 1/4 that's not a lot. If your car is showing 9 second 0-60 runs with torque then you have a problem and it's not the tune. I've never used those apps so I can't speak to them.

I'll have to re read the original post but I thought the OP said something about having tranny problems and the car "not running at all" then was asking about degrading tune.

The way I see people here talk about tunes, to me it sounds like they think the flash process is like an upgrade or a type of mod that just modifies how the car runs and it sounds like they don't understand it's a complete re-write of the ROM.

Carry on sorry for the confusion

 
.15 looks like a healthy # to me to be losing at the track. But that's me. Torque isn't spot on for sure. Spin the tires at all and the #'s get out of whack. But it's a decent baseline to monitor some stuff for sure.

Rich

 
SHOnUup said:
.15 looks like a healthy # to me to be losing at the track. But that's me. Torque isn't spot on for sure. Spin the tires at all and the #'s get out of whack. But it's a decent baseline to monitor some stuff for sure.

Rich

With 450-500 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels with a strong tune and spinning the front wheels briefly I don't think .15 seconds is a lot at all...Would barely be 1 mph..From amateur drivers running street class no less....But we can disagree with one another.
 
No disagreement...just a different view I guess...every little bit counts. Shoot, if I get .15 from the downpipes I'll be happy. That'd be 12.3's, good start.

Rich

 
ajpturbo said:
SHOnUup said:
.15 looks like a healthy # to me to be losing at the track. But that's me. Torque isn't spot on for sure. Spin the tires at all and the #'s get out of whack. But it's a decent baseline to monitor some stuff for sure.

Rich

With 450-500 ft/lbs of torque at the wheels with a strong tune and spinning the front wheels briefly I don't think .15 seconds is a lot at all...Would barely be 1 mph..From amateur drivers running street class no less....But we can disagree with one another.
Have you ever been to the track with your SHO,which would like to see a pic of,carry on!!
 
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Maybe....

Rich

 
No. I have a 14' mustang GT with a Hellion twin turbo kit that that I was tuning on then in November when I finally starting getting the tune right with the SHO the track closed...So here in Pa I won't get to go out until april but I'm anxious to get out
 
ajpturbo said:
No. I have a 14' mustang GT with a Hellion twin turbo kit that that I was tuning on then in November when I finally starting getting the tune right with the SHO the track closed...So here in Pa I won't get to go out until april but I'm anxious to get out
Maybe one day we can meetup at the strip,did you ever go to Cecil county dragway? i think here in n.y-n.j they open up in March,also if its not any trouble post a pic of your SHO,would love to see it.
 
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