Used Tuners

[derfdog15]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

Tune files can be in a protected (locked) format, or an unprotected format. Protected formats allow minimal changes (usually 0) except maybe to a few global parameters that a tuner may leave open based on vehicle (such as gear ratio, tire size, etc.)

Unprotected, would work as you are thinking, you could just open it up with the proper software suite, and mod to your glory, but IDK of any tuners that will send you unprotected/unlocked files without specific request and for good reason.

This is why many people who dyno tune their cars, must return to the same tuner again and again, as they can not have another tuner modify the base file they have. It is also why you start fresh with any tuner, even if you have tunes from someone else prior.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[deejjjaaaa]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

yes, but once the tune is actually stored into your car's ECM then it can be read back by a different device and that's it - it is not encrypted by tuner's secret key when actually stored inside ECM and available for extraction, no ?

 

[derfdog15]

With Unleashed and LMS, they keep their tuning secrets... well, secret.

how they can be a secret if one can put a tune in using their tuners and then readout them back using theirs and data format is known (for those who tune) ?

The tuned files they send are encrypted so you cannot see all the changes. It's part of the SCT PRP that allows them to do it. LMS does similar but with different tuning software.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

yes, but once the tune is actually stored into your car's ECM then it can be read back by a different device and that's it - it is not encrypted by tuner's secret key when actually stored inside ECM and available for extraction, no ?

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

 

[deejjjaaaa]

Protected formats

again I as noted (and I might be very wrong) the tables downloaded by one tuner (a device, black box) to ECM are there available to extracted by a different tuner (a device) in a standard format that ECM is using to communicate with the said devices (OBD-whatever), no >?

 

[deejjjaaaa]

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

yes, but this is how device/firmware developer makes them for an average Joe customer... if I am a tuner who makes my own devices/software I will pull out whatever is in ECM because it is a standard protocol - any tune is as available as a stock tune - same format ... I am not talking about myself - I am talking about people who actually make a living off it... so yes, it is a secret for you and me, but not for competition who actually makes devices and writes software... so no need to decrypt, buy a device/tune from your competition, store the tune in, extract back with your own tools... now that might be illegal under whatever laws, but that is a different story

 

[derfdog15]

Protected formats

again I as noted (and I might be very wrong) the tables downloaded by one tuner (a device, black box) to ECM are there available to extracted by a different tuner (a device) in a standard format that ECM is using to communicate with the said devices (OBD-whatever), no >?

See my previous post. To my knowledge there is not yet a device that can pull any file off an OBD-II linked ECM. OBD-I does not even have the benefit of using a handheld, they have to go chipped or custom ecu (pre 1995 cars).

An SCT tuner will only pull the stock file, once it has pulled it, it is stored. it will then load any/all custom tunes from the device, but can not pull those tunes back off in the same way as the stock file, it merely overwrites the custom files. To my knowledge it is not possible to use one to pull a custom file back off of an ECU, even if there is no stock file stored on the device.

I have never used the LME device for tuning, but from what I have heard/seen I gather it works in the same manner.

Most devices will only pull stock files, if there is a tune, they will merely allow for return to stock, but not save the file. If it was as easy as you say, it would be standard practice.

yes, but this is how device/firmware developer makes them for an average Joe customer... if I am a tuner who makes my own devices/software I will pull out whatever is in ECM because it is a standard protocol - any tune is as available as a stock tune - same format ... I am not talking about myself - I am talking about people who actually make a living off it... so yes, it is a secret for you and me, but not for competition who actually makes devices and writes software.

Again, see my previous posts, it is not done in industry. All tuners do their changes in different ways, one may command boost by strategy 1 while another uses strategy 4. And due to the protection in the files, even when loaded to an ECU, they are still encrypted/protected. This is why we can not just immediately begin to tune on newly released vehicles/updated ECUs. The stock file itself has its own encryption, which must be cracked by people like SCT before it can be modified in the form of a custom tune.