2013 XSport Tuning

[MiWiAu]

Did you do a KAM reset after the knock sensor fix?

Hmm. Nope. The only KAM reset I did was after I installed my 3-Bar MAP and loaded my Unleashed tune. It's raining here tonight, so not a great time to go data log, but I will get the KAM reset and re-log my OE tune before the end of the week.

I feel like I need to put together a definitive how-to guide for EcoBoost tuning: tuning steps and priorities, KAM resets and when to do them, what channels to data log and why, how to perform your data logging pulls, how to interpret your data and what to look for, etc, etc. I've been picking up a lot of pieces here and there as the process moves forward, I just wish I had a good read to get a solid foundation on the basics.

 

[SHOdded]

I guess the simplest breakdown would be:

stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog

rinse & repeat.  Highly tedious, but would net you the max data.  Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs.  If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!

 

[MiWiAu]

I guess the simplest breakdown would be:

stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog

rinse & repeat.  Highly tedious, but would net you the max data.  Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs.  If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!

Yeah, changing one variable at a time and trying to best maintain environmental consistency makes sense, SHOdded. That's what I've been attempting to do, but I did not take the KAM reset into account.

I guess I was unclear on when the KAM should be reset. I've seen some posts suggesting that it's not really needed, others say only with big changes, and the high level break-down you provided leads me to believe that I should reset the KAM with every change. Considering it's not all that difficult to do, I will just plan to follow your outline above and datalog a change both before and after a KAM reset.

#GoCubs #LeadoffHR

 

[derfdog15]

I guess the simplest breakdown would be:

stock tune - datalog
make 1 change - datalog
perform KAM reset - datalog

rinse & repeat.  Highly tedious, but would net you the max data.  Problem is being relatively consistent with environmental variables between runs.  If you can manage that, that would be super awesome!

Yeah, changing one variable at a time and trying to best maintain environmental consistency makes sense, SHOdded. That's what I've been attempting to do, but I did not take the KAM reset into account.

I guess I was unclear on when the KAM should be reset. I've seen some posts suggesting that it's not really needed, others say only with big changes, and the high level break-down you provided leads me to believe that I should reset the KAM with every change. Considering it's not all that difficult to do, I will just plan to follow your outline above and datalog a change both before and after a KAM reset.

#GoCubs #LeadoffHR

I do the KAM reset when changing fuel, or making a hardware change (ie. installing any thing: CAI, Exhaust, 3 bar, etc., or chaging to a different octane/E mix). I did one when going from my 93 tune to my E20 tune, since the fuel trims and stoich point will be different, and are set different in the tune. If I revert back to 93 for a road trip I would do one again. If I went to a larger mix, I would do one.

May not be necessary to do one every single change, though it would for sure be the most effective method.

 

[16MagSport]

I think this is a question for AJP.  I agree with derfdog.  A fuel change if it includes different E content and any hardware change should call for a KAM reset.  Otherwise, you are just throwing away all of the corrections that the computer has already learned it needs to do.  I think that most tune changes would not affect the KAM.  Now, that is not true for my 93 Mustang where the changes I would make would be to injector slope/MAF curve, etc.  I would need to reset to make sure my new adjustments were good.  I also made it so it would not apply its learning at WOT.  It was too far from stock to trust that the part throttle learning would apply to WOT.
These things run off of a wideband, so it should get really good info to build up the KAM.  It knows what it needed to change to get the AFR that was commanded.  Even if the tune commands a different AFR, the corrections it needed to make before should still apply.  I know there is way more to these new systems though, so I could be missing something.
Does anyone know if these run closed loop at WOT?  I was told they ran open loop at WOT and that did not make sense to me since they have a wideband.  My logs show that the actual AFR is damn close to the commanded, so however they do it, it is working pretty well.

 

[derfdog15]

I think this is a question for AJP.  I agree with derfdog.  A fuel change if it includes different E content and any hardware change should call for a KAM reset.  Otherwise, you are just throwing away all of the corrections that the computer has already learned it needs to do.  I think that most tune changes would not affect the KAM.  Now, that is not true for my 93 Mustang where the changes I would make would be to injector slope/MAF curve, etc.  I would need to reset to make sure my new adjustments were good.  I also made it so it would not apply its learning at WOT.  It was too far from stock to trust that the part throttle learning would apply to WOT.
These things run off of a wideband, so it should get really good info to build up the KAM.  It knows what it needed to change to get the AFR that was commanded.  Even if the tune commands a different AFR, the corrections it needed to make before should still apply.  I know there is way more to these new systems though, so I could be missing something.
Does anyone know if these run closed loop at WOT?  I was told they ran open loop at WOT and that did not make sense to me since they have a wideband.  My logs show that the actual AFR is damn close to the commanded, so however they do it, it is working pretty well.

I believe they run closed loop, or at least closed to it from 30 seconds or so after a cold start until shut off. I mention the fuel mix change being the only time I would KAM reset, as that is the only time that AJP has asked me to do so. We nailed down my 93 tune, and were starting on the E20 tune. When he sent the first E20 rev, he asked that I do a KAM reset, and make sure to drive ~10 minutes or 7 miles at least before logging.

There could be other reasons to do one, but this is the only time he has asked for one. The KAM reset I did after the Knock Sensor wire fix was for my own comfort, as the spark tables would have learned based on the false KR, and have lower values throughout, which I didn't want.

These cars are extremely smart, and Ford has some very nice controls strategies in place. The widebands definitely do their jobs as well. Its a shame OEMs didn't start using widebands as OE until this late in the game, or we would probably see better gains on tune only out of older NA/Turbo/SC cars as well.

 

[SHOdded]

Yes, closed loop even at WOT.  Open loop only at startup and fuel decel cutoff.

 

[MiWiAu]

That's great that you have it back already.  If you can, get a log of your stock tune on 91 octane.  I would love to see that and see how much KR your stock tune gets on 91 compared to what mine was doing.

Hey 16MS,

Hope this helps for your reference. Today I took a data log of my OE tune with 91 octane. I did both a 4th gear pull (for comparison to my stock tune on 87 octane) and a 0-90 pull. Unfortunately, I don't have a 0-90 pull on 87 octane with my OE tune.

Also note, this won't be 100% apples to apples. The 87 log here was a totally stock truck. The 91 log has a 170 t-stat, cooler plugs, and an AEM filter.

It looks like my peak KR on 91 was slightly lower than 87, but still fairly high overall.

EDIT: For completeness, I've added two 87 octane runs that have the same updates (plugs, t-stat, air filter) as the 91 octane octane runs attached (runs were taken a day apart under fairly similar weather conditions).

The "OETune_87Stock_4thGear.csv" file was before I taped up and secured knock sensor wiring. All other runs have the same knock wire modification in place.

 

[SHOdded]

Good stuff!  Thanks for taking the time :thumb:

 

[MiWiAu]

Good stuff!  Thanks for taking the time :thumb:

No problem! I'm going to work with my new tuner ( ) on another 87 and 91 tune. We're going to start first with the 87. Tomorrow, I'll get one more OE tune log with 87 for comparison and update my last post. This will give an apples to apples with same tstat, plugs, and filter.


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[SHOdded]

I like your methodical approach, and good luck with the new tuner.  Hope to break new ground for the XSport!

 

[16MagSport]

Thanks Mikey.  Yes, that does help.  It makes me think that mine is normal now because your log looks really similar to my stock logs.  I can't believe how much fuel the stock tune puts in half way through 3rd gear.  That is such a RICH mixture!  It hits 9.7 AFR, crazy.  I was thinking that I could do the thermostat and colder plugs, but it doesn't look like that helped the KR.  I think these things are just sensing a lot of false knock.  I am curious to see what your new tuner thinks after you log his tunes.  Mine does the same thing where it is sensing knock in the middle of 3rd and then starts ramping advance back in.  Your 3rd gear had the KR jump around 5k rpm and so did your 4th gear log.  Something is noisy at 5k rpm.  Mine is the same, but it is not seeing KR that high anymore, even with a more aggressive tune.  I peaked at 3.5KR at that point with more boost and higher temps.  It has to be false knock.  Your 87 log in 4th had KR peak at 5k rpm also.  It was only 2 degree more than your 91 with colder plugs.  If it was real, the 4 points of octane and colder plugs would drop the KR a lot more than that.  Was that 87 log also before you doctored up the knock sensor wires?   

My AJP tunes look great.  I forgot how f'd up the stock tunes look since I have been looking at my AJP tunes lately.

Good luck and keep us posted on your experience.  You will feel a HUGE improvement off the line, especially if you just stall it up to 2k on the launch.  I picked up 2.5 tenths in the 60ft, which is huge!

Oh, and by the way, you are crazy.  LOL  Do a 3rd gear run so you don't have to go so fast and be WOT for so long.  You must have a lot better road than I do.  Your WOT run in 4th is long and you get going pretty fast.  My tune allows me to put it in 3rd with the paddles in Sport mode at 2k rpm and go WOT and it won't downshift.

 

[MiWiAu]

I like your methodical approach, and good luck with the new tuner.  Hope to break new ground for the XSport!

I do a lot of testing at work, so I'm no stranger to trying to minimize variables. It's definitely extra work, but hopefully it will save some time down the road when troubleshooting any issues or anomalies.

Was that 87 log also before you doctored up the knock sensor wires?   

Oh, and by the way, you are crazy.  LOL  Do a 3rd gear run so you don't have to go so fast and be WOT for so long.  You must have a lot better road than I do.  Your WOT run in 4th is long and you get going pretty fast.  My tune allows me to put it in 3rd with the paddles in Sport mode at 2k rpm and go WOT and it won't downshift.

Yes, the "87 Stock 4th Gear" file was prior to taping up the knock sensor wires. I went back to the old post (#88) and added this note, along with two more runs of 87 octane with the same plug and tstat mods.

My "logging" road sucks! Haha. It's just over a half mile long with a kink in the middle. It's right next to a conservation area, so there's a lot of tall grass that make it a mostly blind corner. There's still time to shut down if there's a problem, but not much room for error. I'm also in deer country. I tried taking one log a few weeks ago at dusk - never again.

The only reason I started with 4th gear runs is because that what gear I was running when I did my baseline dyno runs (I mistakenly thought 4th gear was 1:1, doh!). When I ran on the dyno, I had a weird dip in the power band, and I was trying to see if anyone could offer any insight as to what might be causing the dip. Unfortunately, I did not take any data logs while on the dyno, so I went out later and ran on the road to see if it was showing up there.

Anyways, long story short, I was pretty relieved when AJP said I only needed to do 3rd gear WOT and 1-3rd gear pulls. I have a different road that I'll be using for my pulls with him, since I don't need as much space. It's much more open, and I feel a lot better about making runs there.

 

[16MagSport]

I need to find a new road.  Just got a damn ticket!!  I did a WOT 1-3 up to 90mph, hit the brakes and went around a gradual corner, got to the next straight and put it in 3rd and ran from 35mph up to 90mph.  I hit the brakes and got down to the speed limit before cars got to me that came around the next corner way down the road on the other side of the straight, but the 3rd car back was a CHP and had his lights on before I even got to him.  I just pulled over and waited for him to make his U-turn.  I am so disappointed in myself.  I knew this was the wrong time of day to go out there and I even had a bad feeling about it.  I almost turned down a different road, but I wanted to use the same stretch all my others were on.  I'm a dumbass!  I knew better!!  I have made so many passes there.  It was just a matter of time.  At least I wasn't doing 120mph in the Mustang!  He did get me at 90mph though.  That will be expensive and the wife is not happy...

 

[MiWiAu]

Aww, bummer, man! Sorry to hear that.

I always make a spotting pass down and back, but that doesn't cover me for oncoming traffic. I thought about parking a spotter at the end of the road, but it sounded like too much work. Perhaps it's worth it.


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[16MagSport]

Spotter.  Great idea!  Next time I'll do the spotting pass and then drop my kid off in the winery parking lot on the other side of that turn that is after the straightaway.  If I am listening to them on the phone with the hands free, they could give me a warning if a CHP is coming.

Yeah, I am pretty bummed but I new it was just a matter of time.  I have been pushing my luck lately.  I got some good info today.  I had Brad make some big changes.  Might use it for a race tune if he is willing to bump up the advance a little with the disclaimer that I will run some race gas in it to bump octane up.

 

[ajpturbo]

Ouch....i put a lot of effort into finding my special logging spots...ive done so many logs that would warrant loss of license many times over

This is one of very few reasons dyno tuning is good...another is cam shaft and cam timing tuning which most ecoboosters arent doing....another is spark tuning on N/A engines...those are about the only reasons i would prefer dyno tuning

 

[16MagSport]

Yep, I messed up.  This is a very Safe road to log with two long straights, wide shoulders, and no driveways or connecting roads.  It is also close to the house, which is nice.  BUT, unless I do the spotter thing, I won't know that a CHP isn't oncoming around the corner at the end of the straight.  I use less than half of that straight to do the log and have time to slow waaaay down before I get to a car that comes around the corner, but the damn radar works from too far away and even when they are three cars behind the lead car.  It can still get oncoming traffic.  That is cheating!!  I usually pick a better day and time of day that has nobody out there.

At least he was nice and it has been years since I got a ticket.  Still sucks though!  Now I will be afraid to use the power of the hot rod Explorer.

 

[MiWiAu]

Spotter.  Great idea!  Next time I'll do the spotting pass and then drop my kid off in the winery parking lot on the other side of that turn that is after the straightaway.

He/she is not a drinker yet, right? If I dropped my wife at the winery to spot for me, looking out for the popo would be the last thing on her mind! LMAO


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[16MagSport]

Lol!  Nope, 10 year old son and 13 year old daughter.  The popo asked me why I was going so fast.  I told him I was testing it for the races.  Lol.  He didn't get it because his intercepter Ex didn't have the EB.


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