AJPTurbo boost regulator mod with EcoPowerParts charge pipes

[derfdog15]

Hey all,

As some may know, I am in the process of fabbing a way to do the AJPTurbo boost regulator mod onto my EPP charge pipes. To my knowledge this has yet to be done.

I will not have this complete until sometime in January but wanted to share current progress.

I ordered a TiAL MV-S wastegate for the wastegate. Per the specs, the inlet Vband should be welded to 1.75" OD pipe... this is where the issue occurs...  the Vband is stainless steel and must be welded to stainless steel, the hotpipes are aluminum... what to do?

To correct this, we need a way to connect aluminum and steel. This is where I struggled, I started by thinking of just using radiator hose as many have done on stock pipes, but was not feeling it. Then though of getting matched vbands , one set in stainless steel and one in aluminum to mate the pipe, again this seemed like it may not work, and would cost atleast $60 to test.

Cue the third idea... small section of stainless pipe, welded to the wastegate Vband, pre-bent aluminum pipe welded to the charge pipes, and a silicon hump connector with tbolt clamps to secure the pipes!

Today I did some prefab work, as I finally have all the parts (I can share the info on the parts later, with links, if requested).

Parts list:
60 degree bend aluminum pipe, 1.75" OD
70 degree bend aluminum pipe, 1.75" OD -- http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175
1.75" OD stainless steel 'joiner' pipe -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/turbo-piping/intercooler-pipe-fabrication-p-131.html
Hump connector and t-bolts -- http://www.siliconeintakes.com/hump-hose/turbo-coupler-p-428.html and 2x http://www.siliconeintakes.com/t-bolt-clamp/compressor-tbolt-p-107.html
Vband for the TiAL (supplied with wastegate) --https://www.importimageracing.com/tial-mvs-38mm-v-band-external-wastegate-universal.html#header-search -- they offer a 5% off code many times, as well as free shipping with the code, best price I found on a new in box TiAL

I have attached some mock up photos. I will need to shorten the aluminum pipe, and weld one side to the charge piping. On the other I will need to either weld back the section with the bead roll, or bead roll at the cut. For the stainless joiner I will simply put one end in the clamp. Yeah other end will be cut and welded to the Vband.

The hump connector is rigid enough that everything should be supported with ease, but will allow for slight movement with the engine as well as slight misalignment of the pipes.

Pics attached. Comments and suggestions welcome. I will update once more progress is made.


Other parts: I bought 10 ft of 6mm vacuum hose, http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liquid-air-adapter/aftermarket-boost-vacuum-hose-p-305.html

parts similar to the ones I am using for vacuum routing:

1x Brass pipe coupler : https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-56122-Fitting-Nipple/dp/B003NXYB5Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-1

1x 1/8"hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for the boost gauge) : https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B0058I180U/ref=zg_bs_6001529011_7?_encoding=UTF8&refRID=CBMSFF1ZKQ3B9SH6VD4Z&th=1

1x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" 'T' to tap into the break booster line: https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00GVLGULA/ref=sr_1_15?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164870&sr=1-15

1x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" x 1/4" cross: https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-Fitting-Barstock-Female/dp/B00D3CTW56/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482164894&sr=1-1&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A3052057011

2x 1/4"hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for line to BOV and wastegate): https://www.amazon.com/Anderson-Metals-57001-Fitting-Adapter/dp/B002SAO7XQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1482165158&sr=1-3&keywords=1%2F4%22hose+x+1%2F4%22+NPT

2x 3/8 "hose x 1/4" NPT hose barb (for break booster line): https://www.amazon.com/Moeller-Brass-Fuel-Line-Threads/dp/B000MTCRDC


Thread seal tape: http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-520-in-Thread-Seal-Tape-31273/202206819

4x Hose clamps for the 6mm tubing, to secure on the barbs

2x Hose clamps for the brake booster line to secure on the barbs

1x Hose clamp for boost gauge line to the cross barb (I left it unclamped on the gauge, and have seen no issue)

To be honest, with barbed connections, the clamps can probably be skipped as a whole, but I feel better using them, just in case.

Original AJP Boost Regulator Mod: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?topic=6526.0

 

[SHOdded]

Looking forward to progress reports

 

[MiWiAu]

What about getting an aluminum vband flange? You could then have an aluminum elbow welded on and eliminate the hose joint.

I found these doing a quick search, so it seems they're out there: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html

You might be able to buy one individually to save over the cost of the kit.


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[bpd1151]

Nice to see innovation and ingenuity at work.

Revitalizes the platform for us "older" members, and continues fostering the "noobs" coming on board.

Applause for the efforts therein.

Commendable for sure! Continued successes!

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[Gjkrisa]

I would of used jbweld epoxy then painted over but this sounds good also.

 

[derfdog15]

What about getting an aluminum vband flange? You could then have an aluminum elbow welded on and eliminate the hose joint.

I found these doing a quick search, so it seems they're out there: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/aluminum-pipes/custom-aluminum-v-band-intake-flange-p-261.html

You might be able to buy one individually to save over the cost of the kit.


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It was considered, but I would have to find a matching flange in Stainless Steel to mate up to it, since the aluminum pipe will only accept an alumuminum flange, and stainless will only accept a stainless flange. I found two that MAY work from this company : https://www.pacificp.com/

But at 70 just for two flange kits (had to buy male, female, and the clamp) I decided to go slightly cheaper with the hump hose and t-bolts (10 bucks vs. 70). The hump hose from silicon intakes is pretty dang stout, so should be fine to hold everything together.

Another issue with the V-bands is there are exhaust side (hot side) clamps, that are meant to expand to seal, and aluminum O-ring clamps meant for BOV/cold side work due to lower heat, since this application will see boost, I would have prefered an O-ring style (though the TiAL does not have them, and they would be more just for me) but that can complicate the V-band aluminum to stainless even more!

Nice to see innovation and ingenuity at work.

Revitalizes the platform for us "older" members, and continues fostering the "noobs" coming on board.

Applause for the efforts therein.

Commendable for sure! Continued successes!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Thanks BPD1151, means a lot coming from a vet like you.

I would of used jbweld epoxy then painted over but this sounds good also.

I have never been a fan of JBweld, or products of that type. I tend to prefer good clean welds and actual fasteners when possible. I will be painting everything in high gloss black engine enamel once I am done with the fab work, or may even spring to get them powdercoated locally. I bought uncoated because of the fab that needs to be done, as the coating would only make it more tedious to prep for welding.

 

[ajpturbo]

Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

 

[MiWiAu]

Hmm, I see what you're saying, I think.

Personally, I used the "hot side" clamp that came with my Tial. I don't think I'm seeing any leaks since my wastegate duty cycle seems to be where it was pre-mod (until we cranked the boost.

I guess I was thinking you could weld the aluminum flange on your elbow and directly connect the gate to it. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not sure of the long term effects of mating T6061 to 304.

EDIT: I wonder if a thin layer of powder coat on the aluminum elbow/flange (as an insulator) would prevent galvanic corrosion and allow you to connect directly to the wastegate. It would also make your hot pipes pretty after welding.


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[MiWiAu]

Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

I'm just waiting for the letter in the mail form AJP Turbo's attorneys for patent infringement.



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[StealBlueSHO]

I will say, I really liked having the option to switch between tunes that required the TiAL WG and those that didn't. So whichever way you go, it might be worth while looking into an easy way to block the hole on the pipe. For me, it was a simple vacuum line switch along with putting the noise maker back on. Took 5 minutes to swap things around.

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[derfdog15]

Hmm, I see what you're saying, I think.

Personally, I used the "hot side" clamp that came with my Tial. I don't think I'm seeing any leaks since my wastegate duty cycle seems to be where it was pre-mod (until we cranked the boost.

I guess I was thinking you could weld the aluminum flange on your elbow and directly connect the gate to it. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not sure of the long term effects of mating T6061 to 304.

EDIT: I wonder if a thin layer of powder coat on the aluminum elbow/flange (as an insulator) would prevent galvanic corrosion and allow you to connect directly to the wastegate. It would also make your hot pipes pretty after welding.


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Ahh, i thought you were talking the stainless section to aluminum section. As far as an actual V-band to just have an aluminum piece to the waste gate, TiAL said they did not have one (they don't make them as they don't typically see a wastegate in this type of application). They use a mostly standard V-band, with slight variation, to accomidate the proprietary TiAL clamps. This means to do what you are talking, I would have to have a shop custom machine an aluminum flange. While it should work fine, it would also be pretty costly. The other advantage to doing it this way, is that if I decide I do not want to run the boost regulator mod for some reason, I can remove the section with the wastegate, and put a capped section in place, without having to cut and weld anything. That would also be possible with the V-band, but this way, I only have to go to a shop for final welding (and technically I am taking it to a friend at his job, so he can weld it when he gets the chance, and I can just pay him with a case of beer rather than paying actual cost of welding. I will weld the stainless myself with my dads welder, but he doesn't have a spool gun to do the aluminum welding.

I will say, I really liked having the option to switch between tunes that required the TiAL WG and those that didn't. So whichever way you go, it might be worth while looking into an easy way to block the hole on the pipe. For me, it was a simple vacuum line switch along with putting the noise maker back on. Took 5 minutes to swap things around.

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That was part of my reason for going with the hump hose, and doing it this way, if I decide I want to run a tune that does not need/use the mod, I can add a small section of capped pipe in its place.

I am going to run vacuum for the wastegate, my BOV, and the boost gauge, off of the current location of my boost gauge (brake booster line). I have a 'T' in place currently that goes to the boost gauge. I am going to remove the 1/4 x 1/8 rigged nipple, and replace it with a 1/4 x 1/4 coupler, into an 'X', then run a separate line from the 'X' for each of the three accessories. If I remove the wastegate for any reason, I can simply unbolt the nipple on the 'X' and put in a cap.

Though, if this goes anything like my mustang has, or my current use of the SHO, I will leave it on the tune that is the latest rev, because I like getting the most out of it whenever I tap the go pedal!

Its actuall pretty cool seeing the variations and spin offs from the way i did mine...i like seeing the evolution happen. Mine wasnt as clean and didnt look oem but i was happy with the results and it worked as intended ....way to go derf and miwau and steal blue

Would't be possible at all without the great log warlock, so thank you! And thank you for the support to all my random questions via email prior to set up. Thanks to StealBlue for answering my questions when I picked his brain as well. I'm honestly hoping that Mike may see this at some point, and re-consider adding this as an option to the charge pipes, to begin with, however, I also don't want that to happen so mine can be somewhat one-off.

 

[BOT_ROCKET]

I'm looking into options for an aluminum flange. If I can't find anyone that makes them, I used to work at a machine shop that I could probably get some made for a reasonable price.

 

[derfdog15]

I'm looking into options for an aluminum flange. If I can't find anyone that makes them, I used to work at a machine shop that I could probably get some made for a reasonable price.

Well now ya tell us...

The only real info TiAL gave me was that their flanges are a "standard 20 degree pitch" but they said only their flanges work with their clamps...

The guys at PPE claimed their flanges are relatively standard and they thought they could work, but the issue with theirs (which were pretty much the only V-band I could find for the pipe size, is that they are O-ring clamps, and the actual TiAL seat is not set up for an O-ring type seal, which creates another issue. I did a lot of research trying to find an off the shelf clamp that would work before going with the silicon connector decision.

I do wish you luck however, and who knows what you will find, things change every day!

 

[StealBlueSHO]

There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

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[ZSHO]

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter such as HPS which are made for forced induction applications and they also make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

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[derfdog15]

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/

I bought my hump connector from silicon intakes. Looks to be identical to the ones that came with the charge pipe kit from EPP, other than being bare with regards to the ecopowerparts logo. They are a high quality supplier, and prices are extremely reasonable. HPS would work as well, and i believe they also sell prebent aluminum tubing that could work (though the pricing is about 2x what I payed for mine and I am not sure it has bead rolled ends (not necessarily needed when cutting, but nice to be able to weld a small bead rolled end section onto the end, and have a better connection with the silicon clamp).

There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I do not believe there will be much heat here, if any as you mentioned. At most it would see the max IAT2 temps or slightly higher, which will almost never be more than 200F. Almost all silicon clamps can handle those temperatures, and radiator hose should easily handle that as well, given most OE cooling systems use a 190 degree thermostat, and run 210 degree coolant at a minimum

I totally agree, that both you and AJP made it look pretty good, the only reason I can't replicate that exactly is that I am using the aluminum charge pipes because i wanted to go with a TiAL BOV and I fear cracked stock pipes from what I have seen happen to others.

I ended up on the current solution because of the info from you guys about how rigid/supportive the radiator hose connection worked out.

That said, I am a sucker for all black everything, so once the welding is done, I will get it all coated black, or paint it myself. If I had been able to order the charge pipes with a small spout of aluminum pipe (similar to the noisemaker pipe) then I would have just put a coupler on that and not had to worry about welding on the aluminum. The silicon hump hose connector is pretty rigid, so I expect it will work in the same manner as the previous iterations on the stock plastic piping.

Still, should work out pretty well, as I can have my buddy weld it up pretty cheap.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a wide variety of configurations. Z
https://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/

I bought my hump connector from silicon intakes. Looks to be identical to the ones that came with the charge pipe kit from EPP, other than being bare with regards to the ecopowerparts logo. They are a high quality supplier, and prices are extremely reasonable. HPS would work as well, and i believe they also sell prebent aluminum tubing that could work (though the pricing is about 2x what I payed for mine and I am not sure it has bead rolled ends (not necessarily needed when cutting, but nice to be able to weld a small bead rolled end section onto the end, and have a better connection with the silicon clamp).

There is nothing wrong with a bit of rubber hose and a couple clamps...If you look at pictures of AJP's setup it was pretty clean..Without having to spend a lot of money on pipes/welding/fab... Just saying....I think total  I spent around $75.. and that includes the clamps, vacuum hose, Tee's, rubber hose, and custom bent dump pipe with the vband welded to it...

After the install it was pretty clean looking... The pictures I posted were just the rough in... I spent a bit of time and cleaned up rubber hose, positioning, etc...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Definitely agree with StealBlueSho but IMO would use a high-heat temp silicone coupler/adapter like HPS which make a varirty of configurations. Z

So I took AJP suggestion and went with a small section of radiator hose. The one I purchased was prebent.. so I cut it according to how the bend went from the outlet to the dump pipe...I used a PVC saw (small teeth)to make the quick cut and followed up with a razor to smooth it out.

Radiator hose isn't going melt. And the heat coming off the pipe there is fairly benign..

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I do not believe there will be much heat here, if any as you mentioned. At most it would see the max IAT2 temps or slightly higher, which will almost never be more than 200F. Almost all silicon clamps can handle those temperatures, and radiator hose should easily handle that as well, given most OE cooling systems use a 190 degree thermostat, and run 210 degree coolant at a minimum

I totally agree, that both you and AJP made it look pretty good, the only reason I can't replicate that exactly is that I am using the aluminum charge pipes because i wanted to go with a TiAL BOV and I fear cracked stock pipes from what I have seen happen to others.

I ended up on the current solution because of the info from you guys about how rigid/supportive the radiator hose connection worked out.

That said, I am a sucker for all black everything, so once the welding is done, I will get it all coated black, or paint it myself. If I had been able to order the charge pipes with a small spout of aluminum pipe (similar to the noisemaker pipe) then I would have just put a coupler on that and not had to worry about welding on the aluminum. The silicon hump hose connector is pretty rigid, so I expect it will work in the same manner as the previous iterations on the stock plastic piping.

Still, should work out pretty well, as I can have my buddy weld it up pretty cheap.

Good deal, I am stoked to see how it all turns out.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[ZSHO]

I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route and best of luck with your new project.  Z
  http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html

 

[derfdog15]

I Found that HPS makes aluminum tubing if you want to take that route.  Z    http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com/hps-6061-aluminum-tubing-pipe-t6.html

Yeah I looked at their tubing, before I ended up going with the CXRacing tubing.

I also just realized, that when I posted the original post, I made a mistake. I actually bought tubing with a 75 degree bend.

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CXR&Product_Code=PIP175-75&Category_Code=PIP175

The CXRacing stuff also features bead rolled ends, which is pretty nice in an application that will see boost.