What all controls boost? I know you have the wastegates, wastegate actuators, wastegate solenoid, map sensors, blow off valve, obviously the pcm, what else? I know fuel, temperature, and alot of other variables take affect, but being limited to the same amount of boost all the time in different conditions just seems so odd. Is there something so simple im overlooking? Im more then likely going to pull my downpipe and look at the wastegate itself. I dont know what else to check.
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F150 Boost pressure feels limited
- Thread starter Defhd10
- Start date
So i pulled all my piping today to take a look at my turbos. I only checked the compressor side and not the turbine side. Everything looks good. No movement in the shaft and they both spin freely. The last two possibilities i can think of are eather the wastegate flap in one of the turbos is not seating and letting gasses by, or it is electrical. Whether its a sensor or the pcm itself something isnt allowing for the increase in pressure.
Things seem to be getting worse. Boost will surge with almost every shift, and from 1st to about 4th gear the boost is very choppy. Had an evening last week where i began to accelerate at the bottom of a hill and it felt like naturally aspirated engine. Boost was only at 2 lbs with probably 50% throttle input. I had to keep putting the pedal closer to the floor till it finally spooled to 7 lbs. Still no lights or codes.
Have you had it reflashed yet to revert to the old pre-fix OEM tune?
If you have a backup of the OEM tune from when you initially tuned the vehicle, you could try loading that in. Confirm with your tuner first. May even be able to get an OEM tune from your tuner if you have that strategy code.
If you have a backup of the OEM tune from when you initially tuned the vehicle, you could try loading that in. Confirm with your tuner first. May even be able to get an OEM tune from your tuner if you have that strategy code.
No i dont have a backup of the old strategy stock tune. I went to dealer number 2 and asked them if they could flash an as built file then put the updated one back in and they told me it wasnt possible. Once updated it cant be reversed. I said thats fine but can you force the same new file through and again they said no, once the latest file is in it wont accept it again.SHOdded said:Have you had it reflashed yet to revert to the old pre-fix OEM tune?
If you have a backup of the OEM tune from when you initially tuned the vehicle, you could try loading that in. Confirm with your tuner first. May even be able to get an OEM tune from your tuner if you have that strategy code.
Okay i have a new question regarding this problem. About a week before this began, i had the condensation issue. My wagner intercooler was loaded with water and i got a misfire on cylinder 6. I unded up putting my stock intercooler back on for the time being. My question is could the condensation and misfire possibly caused this? Im trying to remember how the truck ran after taking care of the condensation. Im pretty sure it was still doing the surging between shifts back then as well. Also ive noticed my turbos dont sound right at all. My cousin even said they sould way louder which i agree with. But visually inspecting the compressor side of them they seem fine. Is it possible all that condensation over time could have created this problem? I have checked the stock intercooler for water since then and it is dry. Plugs were changed as well. Would a misfire cause enough damage to something to create this problem?
If it was LSPI, not misfire, it could definitely do some serious harm. But all that water leads me immediately to some type of hydrolocking thought. Maybe I am totally offbase on this. IF the water caused decarboning, it could have damaged the turbo(s), cat(s), etc.
I would start with borescoping the cylinders if you think that is a concern. I would think tho that SOME type of code would be thrown SOMEwhere in the system. Usually when the PCM is at fault, that is when no codes show up. Happened to gen 1 & 2 SHOs all the time. Why I think you may be on the right track with tune issues.
Never thought about drilling the intercooler? Seems to be a popular option with the F150 folks. Or applying the TSB to it ...
I would start with borescoping the cylinders if you think that is a concern. I would think tho that SOME type of code would be thrown SOMEwhere in the system. Usually when the PCM is at fault, that is when no codes show up. Happened to gen 1 & 2 SHOs all the time. Why I think you may be on the right track with tune issues.
Never thought about drilling the intercooler? Seems to be a popular option with the F150 folks. Or applying the TSB to it ...
No codes at all. Atleast not yet like i said kinda seems like its been getting worse though. All this happened within like 2 weeks of one another so thats kinda why im not sure which it could be. I had the condensation issue first, fixed that and 4 days later had the recall reflash done. Truck felt sluggish but just thought it was from being back on the stock tune. 2 days after the recall i got the tune back on and thats where i noticed the boost issue. Flashed back to stock and noticed the issue persisted. So it very well could have started after the misfire and i just really didnt notice it.SHOdded said:If it was LSPI, not misfire, it could definitely do some serious harm. But all that water leads me immediately to some type of hydrolocking thought. Maybe I am totally offbase on this. IF the water caused decarboning, it could have damaged the turbo(s), cat(s), etc.
I would start with borescoping the cylinders if you think that is a concern. I would think tho that SOME type of code would be thrown SOMEwhere in the system. Usually when the PCM is at fault, that is when no codes show up. Happened to gen 1 & 2 SHOs all the time. Why I think you may be on the right track with tune issues.
Never thought about drilling the intercooler? Seems to be a popular option with the F150 folks. Or applying the TSB to it ...
I have a few datalogs i could send if need be. Im not sure they have all of what youd be looking for, but the few people that did look at them are telling me the trucks making the power its calling for.TopherSho said:Scanning back I do not see any datalogs .. im curious what the DSD boost is and actaul boost is combined with the wastegate %% and actual-throttle + Throttle position ...
Pm sent. Thank you sir.TopherSho said:Send what ya got sir ... curious ..
Negative. Ive never launched in 4wd. Or ever did a boosted launch at all.TopherSho said:Have you launched in 4wd ...
okedokey...
Whats bugging topher is this :
#1) I can see the boost is steady from the MAP .. BUT the Throttle-Actual in many cases is fluttering as compared to the throttle position, and along with the Throttle-Actual is Wastegate %% .. so your foot goes down slow and steady, but the throttle blade, wategate are blipping up and down. In some cases its more then 7% but less than 10% .. in other sections it is fluttering 10-17% and you would feel that as a surge. Most of this fluttering is around 30-50% throttle. under WoT i do not see the same behavior. BUT then we get to #2 ..
#2) I do not log the Slippage of the TQ converter. Never needed to. so When i look at yours i cannot say ''oh there it is...'' BUT i find it damn coincidental that your TQ-slip logs look jittery as hell ''around'' the same time the flutter seems creep up.
so for me IMO my next step would be this :
#1) find someone who has a data log of normal driving + WoT who is logging TQ-slip and compare ..
#2) crawl under truck, check the ??speed sensor?? (Z/SHODD confirm speed sensor location) PHYSICALLY, check terminal, loose etc..
My thought goes to a previous ''surging'' case where a bad speed sensor cause the upstream ECU to rapidly adjust throttle and by proxy boost waste % beacuse the ECU has zero clue WTF is going on past the input signal.
other possibility .. bad TQ-converter .. in this case i am thinking of ''chatter'' versus outright slipping
Whats bugging topher is this :
#1) I can see the boost is steady from the MAP .. BUT the Throttle-Actual in many cases is fluttering as compared to the throttle position, and along with the Throttle-Actual is Wastegate %% .. so your foot goes down slow and steady, but the throttle blade, wategate are blipping up and down. In some cases its more then 7% but less than 10% .. in other sections it is fluttering 10-17% and you would feel that as a surge. Most of this fluttering is around 30-50% throttle. under WoT i do not see the same behavior. BUT then we get to #2 ..
#2) I do not log the Slippage of the TQ converter. Never needed to. so When i look at yours i cannot say ''oh there it is...'' BUT i find it damn coincidental that your TQ-slip logs look jittery as hell ''around'' the same time the flutter seems creep up.
so for me IMO my next step would be this :
#1) find someone who has a data log of normal driving + WoT who is logging TQ-slip and compare ..
#2) crawl under truck, check the ??speed sensor?? (Z/SHODD confirm speed sensor location) PHYSICALLY, check terminal, loose etc..
My thought goes to a previous ''surging'' case where a bad speed sensor cause the upstream ECU to rapidly adjust throttle and by proxy boost waste % beacuse the ECU has zero clue WTF is going on past the input signal.
other possibility .. bad TQ-converter .. in this case i am thinking of ''chatter'' versus outright slipping
If i recall correctly, i believe the recall was to reprogram the pcm for an intermittent failure of the output speed sensor. Is it possible at the time of the flash, it messed that all up? I will have to look into where its located on these transmissions, although i havent messed with anything under the vehicle so im not sure if anything would be loose but never know. Does this explain why though when pulling hills trying to maintain speed, my boost is being limited to that certain point? This past weekend i did 2 more logs, one on my truck and one on my dads thats the exact same truck with the exact same strategy. As soon as our internet starts working again i can send you those 2 logs to compare. They are the same driving style and route. I added a few other pids like fuel pressure to monitor but nothing stood out to me but of course i dont know what im looking for.TopherSho said:okedokey...
Whats bugging topher is this :
#1) I can see the boost is steady from the MAP .. BUT the Throttle-Actual in many cases is fluttering as compared to the throttle position, and along with the Throttle-Actual is Wastegate %% .. so your foot goes down slow and steady, but the throttle blade, wategate are blipping up and down. In some cases its more then 7% but less than 10% .. in other sections it is fluttering 10-17% and you would feel that as a surge. Most of this fluttering is around 30-50% throttle. under WoT i do not see the same behavior. BUT then we get to #2 ..
#2) I do not log the Slippage of the TQ converter. Never needed to. so When i look at yours i cannot say ''oh there it is...'' BUT i find it damn coincidental that your TQ-slip logs look jittery as hell ''around'' the same time the flutter seems creep up.
so for me IMO my next step would be this :
#1) find someone who has a data log of normal driving + WoT who is logging TQ-slip and compare ..
#2) crawl under truck, check the ??speed sensor?? (Z/SHODD confirm speed sensor location) PHYSICALLY, check terminal, loose etc..
My thought goes to a previous ''surging'' case where a bad speed sensor cause the upstream ECU to rapidly adjust throttle and by proxy boost waste % beacuse the ECU has zero clue WTF is going on past the input signal.
other possibility .. bad TQ-converter .. in this case i am thinking of ''chatter'' versus outright slipping
The new logs will be perfect.
As for speed sensor effects it is outright voodoo.
My thought falls to the sensor VOLTAGE .. it may be falling / spiking out of the expected range **of the new ECU\TCU updates** where as the old ECU parameters were more tolerant. As for why under load... I am unsure. But a bad Tq-converter and or Speed sensor - or bad wiring from the speed sensor is a very strong possibility. Still cannot rule out a bad wastegate..
But for sure logs will help with a review of you Fathers TQ-slip readings if it is from the exact same hill on the same day .. if his truck lacks ''jitter'' on the logs it becomes my #1 suspect.
As for speed sensor effects it is outright voodoo.
My thought falls to the sensor VOLTAGE .. it may be falling / spiking out of the expected range **of the new ECU\TCU updates** where as the old ECU parameters were more tolerant. As for why under load... I am unsure. But a bad Tq-converter and or Speed sensor - or bad wiring from the speed sensor is a very strong possibility. Still cannot rule out a bad wastegate..
But for sure logs will help with a review of you Fathers TQ-slip readings if it is from the exact same hill on the same day .. if his truck lacks ''jitter'' on the logs it becomes my #1 suspect.
Was there any TCU updates applied for the bulletin? Are we 100% sure if so the TCU update was applied? If your fathers truck is the same year / build i'd be curious what IDS says the revision of TCU each truck has.
But for now focus is logs > speed sensor > speed sensor wiring > TQ-converter health .. at least that's where my head goes for this bizarre behavior
But for now focus is logs > speed sensor > speed sensor wiring > TQ-converter health .. at least that's where my head goes for this bizarre behavior
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