Help set my expectations. Just did my SHO.. Not quite experiencing nirvana

[TopherSho]

Ok specs 1st
92p tune from Torrie
plugs (.028) from his site pregapped.
3 bar MAP

I programmed it last night, and have been driving for about 4 hours,  my impressions are 'good' but I am also thinking "this is not what I read the expected behavior to be". 

Can the great internetz help set my expectations correctly ?

Without down pipes,  it feels remarkably the same under 2500 rpm.  AFTER 2500 it is 'stronger' but it is defiantly not ripping up my tires as some have posted.  I ASSUME that is expected since I cannot make boost that much sooner without HFC and downpipes.  please correct me if I am wrong on my assumption on this..

Another thing others posted frequently is the torque steer complaints.  Definitely not seeing torque steer issues either .. which make me think we need to data log and calibrate a bit (this is the 1st tune btw, no calibration has occurred yet). 

The next thing that seems different than other people have noted is chirping tires.  Definitely not doing that.  It was a balmy 44 degrees F this morning and I gave it the WOT beans and certainly no chipping occurred on the 1-2 shift.  This btw is on some slightly cheaper goodyear DWS style tires.  Anyone else comment on 92p octane + 3bar + .28 plug performance up top?  It makes me wonder if I am reving too high (it wasin full auto mode) and shifting under powered.. (this has happened on the OEM tune where it runs right up to the limiter),  or if the AFR + winter gas is causing a loss...

Tq management. 
Holy s***.  Its weird.  I am going to give it a week before I do anything but holy crap does it shift hard at 50% throttle. At WOT it shift likes bullet.  pop-pop-pop! not to hard, not soft like it was before but it snaps into gear quickly and without drama. *perfect*.

At normal speeds.. it is like normal... soft and grandpa lazy shifting.. slightly more throttle makes it crisper but the wife doesn't even feel the difference.

but at 50% throttle ... WTAF.  BAM!  Negans bat just hit the car in the ass. prime example I can replicate.. 50% throttle 4-2 downshifts are BRUTAL, LOUD and "did I break it" jarring.  Will that tone down over time?  Or do I need to adjust the pressure for downshifts?  In my head I really do not care about downshift pressure.. I am happy to soften that up.  All I care about is the much crisper upshifting under wot which 'seems' fine..

At 50% throttle upshifts are also pretty hard.  Not spine shattering, but it is eye opening at 5:30am. I have not made my mind up yet on the harder upshifts when not WoT... I am thinking when at the track WoT shifts will be more important to reduce ET's by reducing the time spent soft-shifting.  Dunno.

I fully expect the need to re-calibrate.. so I am not disappointed at all.  but i am curious if others have had similar experiences or advice.

thank you in advance.



 

 

[ZSHO]

Do you have access to 93 octane fuel? The first tune will always be the softest tune and its crucial to datalog and monitor AFR readings in order to get the most benefits and optimum feel in performance and it will take roughly 5 tune revisions and some have had roughly 10-20 tune revisions before they were satisfied with the level of performance and so may variables to consider such as mileage staying on top of maintenance aspect so due update your signature with your current vehicle and a list of all your mods,thanks.  Z

 

[SHOdded]

Is this the first tune you have loaded from Torrie?  Then I would say your experience is pretty typical.  He starts off conservatively, then you add in a couple of datalogs and revisions.  You should notice a significant difference between revisions as long as there is room to spare.  Most only need a few revisions to get to the "happy" spot.

As far as shifts, you can ask him to dial down the shift pressures a bit.  Also I assume you have done fluids maintenance prior to tuning the car.  If not, now would be a good time.

 

[Blackhawk]

The cars tend to shift harder after reprogramming until it relearns, I was like WTF as well after getting tuned and it got better a couple days.

 

[derfdog15]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

 

[TopherSho]

Crap I did not post the year : 2010.. NON-PP

Sorry about that.

Next Question:  When do I retune?  Torrie did not bring it up and I don't want to harass the poor guy if you are supposed to wait a few days 1st.

 

[TopherSho]

Is this the first tune you have loaded from Torrie?  Then I would say your experience is pretty typical.  He starts off conservatively, then you add in a couple of datalogs and revisions.  You should notice a significant difference between revisions as long as there is room to spare.  Most only need a few revisions to get to the "happy" spot.

As far as shifts, you can ask him to dial down the shift pressures a bit.  Also I assume you have done fluids maintenance prior to tuning the car.  If not, now would be a good time.

Ok,  that lines up in my head.  I just needed to hear it to make sure.  Thank you.

 

[TopherSho]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

Thank you as well. Well now I need to be patient then ... NOT my strong suit.  >

 

[TopherSho]

Is this the first tune you have loaded from Torrie?  Then I would say your experience is pretty typical.  He starts off conservatively, then you add in a couple of datalogs and revisions.  You should notice a significant difference between revisions as long as there is room to spare.  Most only need a few revisions to get to the "happy" spot.

As far as shifts, you can ask him to dial down the shift pressures a bit.  Also I assume you have done fluids maintenance prior to tuning the car.  If not, now would be a good time.

gah,  Here in the land of mists and trees (Oregon) we have 92 octane Chevron as the best gas around .  I do have access to 100-octane clear fuel but obviously not running that for Daily driving.  since the west coast seems mostly 92-bound I will stick to that tune for now, and then when spring comes used my second tune I bought for a 100-octane drag tune.

 

[derfdog15]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

Thank you as well. Well now I need to be patient then ... NOT my strong suit.  >

Definitely hard to be patient with these cars. What you will want to do when tuning is make sure your OAR levels out, you want it as close to -1 as possible. That should be one of the parameters you are datalogging and I would display it on the SCT display as well. It will go closer to negative one when load is applied and no KR(knock retard) is detected. Since you have a 2010 it will reset to 0 every time you load a tune, you want to let it level out to its maximum value before logging again. With good 93 octane, as well as 93 and E85 mixed, I typically see -.96 as my maximum value on the SCT. I would expect you to see somewhere in the -.85 or better range. Once you know where it goes at maximum you know what to look for in the future.

As far as datalogging for revisions, I would do it as soon as it is safe to do so (location, weather, etc.) and the OAR, etc. are leveled out. At a minimum without OAR set, you will want to drive about 10 minutes or 7 miles (if it doesnt reset between tunes, which being a 2010 will most likely happen) before logging. If it resets, you want it maxed out, as you will have maximum spark advance.

Once your trims are set, I would get logs, and send in for a revision. If he is busy, etc. atleast he has the files. Also if not already provided, ask Torrie if he has a list of parameters or a file for you to log from. Each tuner typically has parameters that they like to monitor. Hopefully this is helpful.

 

[TopherSho]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

Thank you as well. Well now I need to be patient then ... NOT my strong suit.  >

Definitely hard to be patient with these cars. What you will want to do when tuning is make sure your OAR levels out, you want it as close to -1 as possible. That should be one of the parameters you are datalogging and I would display it on the SCT display as well. It will go closer to negative one when load is applied and no KR(knock retard) is detected. Since you have a 2010 it will reset to 0 every time you load a tune, you want to let it level out to its maximum value before logging again. With good 93 octane, as well as 93 and E85 mixed, I typically see -.96 as my maximum value on the SCT. I would expect you to see somewhere in the -.85 or better range. Once you know where it goes at maximum you know what to look for in the future.

As far as datalogging for revisions, I would do it as soon as it is safe to do so (location, weather, etc.) and the OAR, etc. are leveled out. At a minimum without OAR set, you will want to drive about 10 minutes or 7 miles (if it doesnt reset between tunes, which being a 2010 will most likely happen) before logging. If it resets, you want it maxed out, as you will have maximum spark advance.

Once your trims are set, I would get logs, and send in for a revision. If he is busy, etc. atleast he has the files. Also if not already provided, ask Torrie if he has a list of parameters or a file for you to log from. Each tuner typically has parameters that they like to monitor. Hopefully this is helpful.

Excellent. It has about 4 hours of normal driving and a few WoT runs under its belt.  it should be leveled off by your description by now.

Torrie provided a Config file to load for the Datalog.  I am off to learn how to apply it ...

 

[derfdog15]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

Thank you as well. Well now I need to be patient then ... NOT my strong suit.  >

Definitely hard to be patient with these cars. What you will want to do when tuning is make sure your OAR levels out, you want it as close to -1 as possible. That should be one of the parameters you are datalogging and I would display it on the SCT display as well. It will go closer to negative one when load is applied and no KR(knock retard) is detected. Since you have a 2010 it will reset to 0 every time you load a tune, you want to let it level out to its maximum value before logging again. With good 93 octane, as well as 93 and E85 mixed, I typically see -.96 as my maximum value on the SCT. I would expect you to see somewhere in the -.85 or better range. Once you know where it goes at maximum you know what to look for in the future.

As far as datalogging for revisions, I would do it as soon as it is safe to do so (location, weather, etc.) and the OAR, etc. are leveled out. At a minimum without OAR set, you will want to drive about 10 minutes or 7 miles (if it doesnt reset between tunes, which being a 2010 will most likely happen) before logging. If it resets, you want it maxed out, as you will have maximum spark advance.

Once your trims are set, I would get logs, and send in for a revision. If he is busy, etc. atleast he has the files. Also if not already provided, ask Torrie if he has a list of parameters or a file for you to log from. Each tuner typically has parameters that they like to monitor. Hopefully this is helpful.

Excellent. It has about 4 hours of normal driving and a few WoT runs under its belt.  it should be leveled off by your description by now.

Torrie provided a Config file to load for the Datalog.  I am off to learn how to apply it ...

Enjoy! If you have any issue, here is some instruction from some mustang tune vendors. I used the BAMA link to learn for mine. Both are pretty good though. If you have any issues, there are some extremely knowledgeable people on this forum.

Also remember to take note of that OAR value, and make sure you are the same value for future datalogging. Also keep an eye on it as if your gas changes from normal to winter blend or vice versa that can effect things.

https://support.bamaperformance.com/hc/en-us/articles/202545589-How-to-Datalog-with-the-Bama-SCT-X4-SF4
https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/articles/206010538-HOW-TO-DATALOG-WITH-FOR-X3-AND-X4-HANDHELD-USERS-IN-DETAIL

 

[SHOdded]

Good guidance there, derfdog! :thumb:  :thumb:

 

[TopherSho]

Definitely wont be crazy until atleast a few revisions, with my AJP tune the first and second rev didn't up the boost enough to cause traction issues, the 3rd one made me almost need new pants due to the increased torque, and ripped tires.

Another thing to note, especially with shifting, is that is is always a bit rough after a retune. After the car settles in they usually soften up.

Also do you have a 13+ or a 10-12? 13+ don't KAM reset on retune, so fuel trims, etc. stay and shift behavior/idle learn also seems to stay. 10-12s OAR resets, fuel trims reset, and learned idle etc. may as well.

If you notice that it has odd idle behavior, do a KAM reset on the SCT device, and then let it idle with AC off until it is warm, then idle with AC on for about 1-2 minutes, and after that drive it a bit.

Thank you as well. Well now I need to be patient then ... NOT my strong suit.  >

Definitely hard to be patient with these cars. What you will want to do when tuning is make sure your OAR levels out, you want it as close to -1 as possible. That should be one of the parameters you are datalogging and I would display it on the SCT display as well. It will go closer to negative one when load is applied and no KR(knock retard) is detected. Since you have a 2010 it will reset to 0 every time you load a tune, you want to let it level out to its maximum value before logging again. With good 93 octane, as well as 93 and E85 mixed, I typically see -.96 as my maximum value on the SCT. I would expect you to see somewhere in the -.85 or better range. Once you know where it goes at maximum you know what to look for in the future.

As far as datalogging for revisions, I would do it as soon as it is safe to do so (location, weather, etc.) and the OAR, etc. are leveled out. At a minimum without OAR set, you will want to drive about 10 minutes or 7 miles (if it doesnt reset between tunes, which being a 2010 will most likely happen) before logging. If it resets, you want it maxed out, as you will have maximum spark advance.

Once your trims are set, I would get logs, and send in for a revision. If he is busy, etc. atleast he has the files. Also if not already provided, ask Torrie if he has a list of parameters or a file for you to log from. Each tuner typically has parameters that they like to monitor. Hopefully this is helpful.

Excellent. It has about 4 hours of normal driving and a few WoT runs under its belt.  it should be leveled off by your description by now.

Torrie provided a Config file to load for the Datalog.  I am off to learn how to apply it ...

Enjoy! If you have any issue, here is some instruction from some mustang tune vendors. I used the BAMA link to learn for mine. Both are pretty good though. If you have any issues, there are some extremely knowledgeable people on this forum.

Also remember to take note of that OAR value, and make sure you are the same value for future datalogging. Also keep an eye on it as if your gas changes from normal to winter blend or vice versa that can effect things.

https://support.bamaperformance.com/hc/en-us/articles/202545589-How-to-Datalog-with-the-Bama-SCT-X4-SF4
https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/articles/206010538-HOW-TO-DATALOG-WITH-FOR-X3-AND-X4-HANDHELD-USERS-IN-DETAIL

Nice,  links were spot on.

 

[TxGt1]

Do you have access to 93 octane fuel? The first tune will always be the softest tune and its crucial to datalog and monitor AFR readings in order to get the most benefits and optimum feel in performance and it will take roughly 5 tune revisions and some have had roughly 10-20 tune revisions before they were satisfied with the level of performance and so may variables to consider such as mileage staying on top of maintenance aspect so due update your signature with your current vehicle and a list of all your mods,thanks.  Z

I can see maybe 5 revisions. If I need 10-20 I think I might try another tuner. I have had several mustangs never needed 10 revisions. Maybe ecoboost tuning is different?

 

[derfdog15]

Do you have access to 93 octane fuel? The first tune will always be the softest tune and its crucial to datalog and monitor AFR readings in order to get the most benefits and optimum feel in performance and it will take roughly 5 tune revisions and some have had roughly 10-20 tune revisions before they were satisfied with the level of performance and so may variables to consider such as mileage staying on top of maintenance aspect so due update your signature with your current vehicle and a list of all your mods,thanks.  Z

I can see maybe 5 revisions. If I need 10-20 I think I might try another tuner. I have had several mustangs never needed 10 revisions. Maybe ecoboost tuning is different?

Was that with changing mods as well? I currently am on Rev11 of my tune, but started tuning for an E20 blend at Rev6, so I have 5 revisions on the pump gas tune, and am on the 6th on E20 tuning, but we are making one change at a time, first set of Revisions was to dial in boost, now we are dialing in the Spark Advance.

I am unsure how others do it, but I am also sure there may be need for a few extra revisions when a new mod is added, for instance when I add downpipes, I will need a new rev to my pump gas tune and E20 tune. Depending on the cars behavior there may be need for a second revision or even third at that point.

Weather changes also may necessitate tune changes, due to winter blend gas, etc. Though once a tune is dialed in it should need minimal revision. I think the biggest thing is how the tuner does changed. AJP does very gradual changes, and only works on one major parameter at a time, so that we can know for a fact how the change is affecting things. I like this way much more than a tuner who throws boost, and spark, and other changes at you all at the same time.

 

[TxGt1]

I would think the initial tune files that you receive should not have to be tweaked more than 3-5 times to get it dialed in. If you add another part obviously you would need a revision to get the full potential out of your mods and tune. Maybe Im not as picky with my tunes lol. I data log send to my tuner and when I get my revision I'm good to go. Speaking of tuning I think I have decided to go with unleashed can't wait to see if it wakes up my Xsport.


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[derfdog15]

I would think the initial tune files that you receive should not have to be tweaked more than 3-5 times to get it dialed in. If you add another part obviously you would need a revision to get the full potential out of your mods and tune. Maybe Im not as picky with my tunes lol. I data log send to my tuner and when I get my revision I'm good to go. Speaking of tuning I think I have decided to go with unleashed can't wait to see if it wakes up my Xsport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I was tuning with Torrie or Livernoise I would probably just try to get it to a nice gain, and leave it. But with AJP, since he knows his stuff extremely well, and is willing to explain changes in detail, I kinda let him choose when we should stop, based on what he sees. He also does the changes in smaller increments, like I mentioned, so my first 5 revs were all related to increased boost, and there was no room for spark increase on 93 octane with my car. Then we started E85 tuning, and tweaked boost control a bit, and peak boost. After we started on spark. The current rev, I saw 25 degrees of spark advance at WOT, with 0KR. So we are most likely going to move on to rev 12 and advance spark a bit more.

Like I said, I think it has to do with how the tuner works, some would use the first log to see where spark/boost are, and then jump boost up a few PSI and spark advance, rather than going 1 PSI at a time,and then a degree or 2 of spark at a time.

 

[TxGt1]

That's great that AJP will dial it in like that for you! I see what your saying. Thanks for taking the time to share that information.


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[Vortech347]

It takes a few.  All cars are different and so are their environments.