Knock Issues even on stock tune - HELP!

[SHOdded]

2014 Flex with the 3.5 Ecoboost. I have a Mdesign Intake, NGK plugs and a 91 octane tune from Unleashed

The ongoing thread on SHOforum
https://shoforum.com/index.php?threads/knock-reading-maxed-at-7-50.138076/

The stock datalog is over on Google Drive
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SSDjb9s6U_H3-_rtyI4ZbkZ2-6bDAQmf

 

[Scott4957]

Looks like he is going to move back to the stock air box and test, we will see if he has the issue after that. Could just be a tank of crap fuel too, I have had some issues with my 93 tunes and the gas in my area. AJP had me buy a bottle of race gas additive, I mixed up a batch of that and it proved my gas was terrible. I don't even bother with a 93 tune now, all E mixes from here on out. I thought it was the MKS, first tune out with the Fusion Sport and I had the same problems, moved to E30 and it all went away. Oddly enough the Lincoln seemed to do fine on the 93 tunes for quite a while then I started having knock, i figured something changed with the car but after having similar issues with the Fusion we have chalked it up to poor gas quality.

It can be found for less, but this is the stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/RACE-GAS-100032-Race-Concentrate-Octane/dp/B015HRK7ZS

 

[Scott4957]

Thanks, saw your post in the other thread. If he gets knock with that stuff in the tank then its not fuel! I think someone mentioned the possibility metal on metal banging together and causing false knock. I know these sensors are pretty well tuned to only pickup on true knock but I would say its a possibility. I have had tunes where no audible knock was detected and knock was showing up at places in the runs/logs you would not expect to see it but then clean in areas you would expect to see it if it was true knock, we desensitized the knock sensors and all was well, pulled back on the tune when we started seeing it in areas we expected to see knock.

 

[SHOdded]

Let's see if he can make headway soon!  Engines in the Flex have a bad habit of dying early deaths from cracked blocks & such, or at least it seems like it LOL from reports on this forum.

 

[lamrith]

My gut would be to pull everything out, take the car to 100% factory stock with stock tune and log to see what happens.   
Might be worth getting a logging profile setup that will monitor per cylinder knock as well, may help narrow it down. 

 

[SHOdded]

Good idea!  How to monitor indiv cyl knock?  Easy?

 

[Scott4957]

I have one, let me find it and I'll post it up.

 

[SHOdded]

Thank you kind sir!

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

He was at 150 -175 165 degrees at the intercooler for the entire pull.

I suspect that might have something to do with this stock log.

I don't remember mine running this pig rich at stock (Lambda .70) so I wonder if the car is adding fuel to cool things down.

Why no IAT2 pid?

 

[SHOdded]

I can ask him to add iat2 prior to the next pull, but would like to have a list beforehand so it can be done all at one time.  If there are unnecessary pids, we can eliminate those also.  Please suggest away

And yes the same thought occurred to me about the fueling.  But we might be chasing our tails if the root cause is false knock.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I can ask him to add iat2 prior to the next pull, but would like to have a list beforehand so it can be done all at one time.  If there are unnecessary pids, we can eliminate those also.  Please suggest away

And yes the same thought occurred to me about the fueling.  But we might be chasing our tails if the root cause is false knock.

Is he using the handheld or laptop?

38 pids is much and it looks to be hurting resolution. I get better performance (and less hassle) using the handheld with less pids.

All of this is strictly my opinion and may piss off tuner.

Add-
Cat temp bank 1 (Many don't monitor but this can tell you lots about fueling and too much/little spark advance)
OAR
IAT2

Delete
BATT
CAC
Coolant (We have a head temp sensor, I use that)
FPDC
Everything bank 2
MAP volts
spark advance
throttle angle actual (looks like it is following DSD fine)
throttle position pids, maybe add pedal position

Now if I'm looking for a mechanical issue (ex trims for possible injector issue)I have a full file that utilizes both banks but normally I use bank 1 only to increase resolution. I didn't see anything off so I'd go back to my fast file.

I suspect on that log you are seeing normal operation due to IAT2 temps.

Brad could give much more insight but I hear he's a very busy boy right now.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

So I noticed his comment about 4.5 before he leaves his driveway.

This sounds similar to the issue with the Lincoln where I was seeing +7 off idle which resulted in the entire timing assembly being replaced.

I don't know what the tech did right but this thing really doesn't have KR anymore. We've had it back for months and just saw a .7 on last weeks log. Before that I would see a very random .09 but otherwise nothing. I would have thought my sensors were broken had it not added normally.