Livernois Tune Madness on "Winter Blend"

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Rich, the fact that we don't come to Livernois rescue whenever disagreement arises could also say the opposite, that we're not biased towards any vendor.  Since this is a forum there's always going to be differences of opinion. Moderating is a slippery slope. It's a lose-lose for us because no matter which direction we go, someones gonna be pissed off.  Everybody has their favorites and for some reason always think that makes them beyond reproach. That's not the way the real world works and quite honestly it just makes you look biased. I get it, they've gifted you with a quick car and you support them. I applaud your loyalty, but you do not make up the entire membership of EBPF.

It Looks to me that LME is more than capable of defending themselves. We moderate lightly here which is probably a good thing or you'd be banned with your  personal assault on the forum and admin. Right or wrong, AJP has added data to the discussion which is more than I can say for your contributions in this thread so far. Since I don't tune cars I'll leave the discussion to the guys that do and so far on this thread that consists of AJP and whoever we are speaking with from LME.

As far as the bias issue regarding me personally? Most of my opinions went out the window the second I took this "job". I find myself not posting often because it's hard to have an opinion and be neutral at the same time. So now I just post data I find while researching the interwebz and my personal experiences I've had with the two SHO's I've owned. If LME thinks that I conduct myself with bias, they are welcome to PM me and I will relinquish my duties and go back to being a member.




 
I never asked for a "rescue"...

But, we'll fall back to the this is out of context so it's ok for someone to run around this site calling people stupid, their ideas dumb, and that their car looks stupid...yet, I see where some moderation could take place to keep it from getting petty....and I'm the one who needs moderation?

Data = low fuel....been stated how many times?

I don't even own a 13+....but I have a few guys testing the V9 91...V9 93...V8 93...V8 91...in different temps with Forscan watching.

It's the fuel & temps combined...just like Torrie having guys running less of a tune file when the temps dip... (like I said before)...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 
I probably know Rich better than most here.  He runs couple EB Facebooks pages and would of never let this thread get this far. Period. As for him defending LME, like no one else would defend there tuner, I hope they would.  Do I think Rich has a point, yes I do and do I think is call out was warranted, yes I do.  Manu, you know Rich too, you should of cut him some slack.  Yes, I will always have Rich's back.  Back to the thread, it has always been a fueling issues for day one, even the FORD fuel engineers will tell you that.
 
It takes a while for some people to change the way they present themselves in public.  And if you have been watching, you know the rhetoric you refer to has been toned down over time, and will improve further, I am sure.  This is not a magical change, it took work on all our parts to make it happen.

I made my comments to you because you could have PM'd me first with your concerns, and I could have taken action.  But you chose not to.  I thought we had some degree of trust, but maybe that was my error, because this is an open forum.

You could have just stated the facts you did in the last post, in support of Livernois, without all the recrimination.  But you chose not to.  You yourself are an intrepid data-gatherer, so there is weight to what you say.

So yeah, I responded, because what you said really hurt.
 
i have a 2013 non PP am running a 3bar, intake, 91 V8 tune, downpipes, and magnaflow exhaust. I do have the LME tune and do not have any of the issues that are being discussed in this thread.

I didn't see where anyone else that had a similar tune and year of car had the same issue. But from all the reading i have been doing on this out of control subject seems to be car related and not tune related.

Not trying to be a **** but its just an observation.
 
makoskey said:
i have a 2013 non PP am running a 3bar, intake, 91 V8 tune, downpipes, and magnaflow exhaust. I do have the LME tune and do not have any of the issues that are being discussed in this thread.

I didn't see where anyone else that had a similar tune and year of car had the same issue. But from all the reading i have been doing on this out of control subject seems to be car related and not tune related.

Not trying to be a **** but its just an observation.
Not only that but there seems to be a bit of variation from car to car. The 15 holds rail pressure better than the 13 did. Why? No idea. I can say that I purposely pushed to 13 to the limit (for science, right?) and it gave out at E45ish on a zero degree day. No sputter, nothing prior to tell me I was maybe getting close, it just shut the throttle and said no more please. Took it back to E25 and carried on without issue.

Rich runs E85 on a hot tune without issue.

14 Shocar has E0 and has issues? I don't see why it is unreasonable for him to ask if there is an issue with his tune. Does that mean the tune is the problem? Nope. Does it mean he drew the rail pressure short stick? Quite possibly.
 
I just know I'm going to regret this... :)  I have done logging with my LMS 93 V8 and V9 on my 2013+.  I'm not going to get in the debate about PIDs being a good way to tune the car but they do at least provide some data about what is going on. Using FORSCAN I saw fuel pressures falling below 900 PSI and the car doesn't like it.  It did maintain A/F but my suspicion is the car doesn't like the drop in FRP and starts limiting things...now mind you this was a calculated blend of E16-E18.  If I get rid of the E85 mix the situation dramatically improves - although I don't know if it goes awayentirely as I haven't tested as I don't like flooring my car when it's -14 outside or ridiculously snowy - all of which has been happening here. 

I don't think comparing boost levels and fueling directly is all that helpful because it depends on how much timing you are running as well does it not? - you can run 25 PSI and 10 degrees of timing or 12 PSI and 23 degrees (as a probably not so accurate example) and make the same power because cylinder pressures are similar.  You need to look at multiple variables to determine if the car is out of fuel or not...

Certainly something could be going on with the OP's car that is causing this issue to manifest itself (bad HPFP, Fuel control module, E85 mixing) when tuned and not stock.  I would just get my money back and move on but I suspect you will find yourself in the same situation with another tuner - or you will be tuning around the issue.
 
As I requested before, if there is anything be gained from further public discussion, we will let this thread stay.  Otherwise, it will be locked.  Any further threads opened by the OP with regards to this topic will be subject to locking as well at our discretion.

14SHOCAR, are you willing to continue this with LME offline?  Please let me know within the hour.
 
For Everyone's viewing pleasure... my exchange with Livernois....

Livernois.png

WHY I have to PROVE to them that I have been having this problem from the beginning is ABSOLUTELY INSANE.
 
ecoboostsho said:
I'm not going to get in the debate about PIDs being a good way to tune the car but they do at least provide some data about what is going on.
Absolutely.  If you think of the internals of the PCM as a black box, the PIDs can be construed to be outputs from that black box.  So obviously there IS merit to Livernois' assertions.  The question is whether SCT is tuning purely based on PIDs or are they taking the PID inputs from the tuner and making the changes INSIDE the black box.  Is changing PID behavior adequate, or do we need to change the internals of the black box for safe & reliable tuning?
FoMoCoSHO said:
Does that mean the tune is the problem? Nope. Does it mean he drew the rail pressure short stick? Quite possibly.
Very true.  The ends of the fuel rails are also known to get gunked up from time to time, so another possibility, esp if adding ethanol has a mild cleaning action.
 
ecoboostsho said:
I would just get my money back and move on but I suspect you will find yourself in the same situation with another tuner - or you will be tuning around the issue.

If Livernois is willing to give me my money back, I'd be happy to move on my merry way.
 
Per Livernois:

"Brenton,

We are sorry that you are unhappy with your most recent tuning endeavor. Honestly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the tunes nor the tuner. All of the issues that you have been bringing up are a direct result of running alternative fueling and various other mods that you were unhappy with. Your opinion is that the tune ultimately is to blame for all of that now, and you are entitled to having that opinion. However, we have literally hundreds upon hundreds of tuned SHO owners out there that can adhere to out regimen, and do not have the same issue(s). We attempt to help where we can and never shy away from credible critiques. You have had our tuning for over a year, that is a while without issue. If it was within a couple months we may consider this as an option. We wish you well going forward, and hopefully we will earn your business again.

Respectfully,
Livernois Motorsports"
 
Brenton:
I firmly believe that you need to take the car in to a good mechanic (yes, they are hard to find).  Usually a shop that has experienced personnel that don't just rely on computers to tell them what to do.  ElvenSHO can testify to that :)  Go to a Lincoln shop, usually they have more experience with EB engines.

A loose spark plug can cause "balloon pop" type sounds also:
http://www.jeepz.com/forum/cj-yj-tj-jk/35652-engine-noise-after-replacing-spark-plugs.html

Spark plugs are torqued to a precise spec so that a) they don't move, and b) the position in the cylinder is known and static.  It is possible that incorrect positioning within the cylinder is causing improper flame fronts that are more evident when enough fuel is added.

But it could be a leaky fuel injector as well.  In short, get the mechanicals checked out thoroughly.  You just might save your car.
 
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