Lowering intake temps.. ?

[lamrith]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.  this explains a bit.

Yeah it would be great to have it out front of the other two.  Could have been designed in the middle to actually use the heat in cold climates?

 

[glock-coma]

I believe the new hellcat utilizes the ac system to cool the intake manifold.

 

[TopherSho]

I believe the new hellcat utilizes the ac system to cool the intake manifold.

it indeed does.  in drag mode you can shunt max *AC refrigerant itself* to cool her down .. smart stuff.

 

[TopherSho]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.  this explains a bit.

Yeah it would be great to have it out front of the other two.  Could have been designed in the middle to actually use the heat in cold climates?

I imagine that is exactly the case to deal with sub 40' climates with tons of moisture.

 

[ajpturbo]

There is a device out there already called killer chiller...its for supercharged mustangs that tap into your ac sytem for the heat exchanger of the supercharger

 

[TopherSho]

There is a device out there already called killer chiller...its for supercharged mustangs that tap into your ac sytem for the heat exchanger of the supercharger

OMG /car boner/ they make a 12v standalone closed loop %%%%ing system ... oh wow.  This is so tempting...

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Meth is cheaper...

 

[TopherSho]

Meth is cheaper...

True!  But now you can chill your meth ?!

 

[lamrith]

Meth is cheaper...

Yes very true, but you need to tune specifically for the meth since it alters A/F?  You also have to sure it is always full as if you run out things can go boom.  I think with the cooling setup above it would be a install and forget about it deal, no specific tuning needed.  You can run or not run based on temps and what you have going on and not have to worry about it.  If it is a cool morning/winter day, don't turn it on, warm summer day and you want to play, turn it on (or better yet have the system on a temp switch so it could turn on/off on it's own..)

I see it sort of like old school pushrod cars.  Real easy to just throw a nitrous plate under the carb.  More expensive and time consuming is to throw intake/cam maybe heads at it.  They can net the same end result, but one is there all the time, the other you have to keep full and buy consumable based on how much you use it.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Meth is cheaper...

Yes very true, but you need to tune specifically for the meth since it alters A/F?  You also have to sure it is always full as if you run out things can go boom.  I think with the cooling setup above it would be a install and forget about it deal, no specific tuning needed.  You can run or not run based on temps and what you have going on and not have to worry about it.  If it is a cool morning/winter day, don't turn it on, warm summer day and you want to play, turn it on (or better yet have the system on a temp switch so it could turn on/off on it's own..)

I see it sort of like old school pushrod cars.  Real easy to just throw a nitrous plate under the carb.  More expensive and time consuming is to throw intake/cam maybe heads at it.  They can net the same end result, but one is there all the time, the other you have to keep full and buy consumable based on how much you use it.

I really think it depends on the setup really... I called and had a very in depth conversation with Snow Performance...

You can tune the car to where you want it, and then add Meth just to cool the charge down... so if you run out of meth, you just run as if the charge wasn't being cooled... and according to them, our ECU is able to adjust for a small amount of meth without needing AFR tuning...

Where you get into trouble is tuning the engine to the nth degree while spraying. Then if you run out of meth your base fuel cannot support the timing your running and then the possibility of Kaboom is real...

 

[TopherSho]

Meth is cheaper...

Yes very true, but you need to tune specifically for the meth since it alters A/F?  You also have to sure it is always full as if you run out things can go boom.  I think with the cooling setup above it would be a install and forget about it deal, no specific tuning needed.  You can run or not run based on temps and what you have going on and not have to worry about it.  If it is a cool morning/winter day, don't turn it on, warm summer day and you want to play, turn it on (or better yet have the system on a temp switch so it could turn on/off on it's own..)

I see it sort of like old school pushrod cars.  Real easy to just throw a nitrous plate under the carb.  More expensive and time consuming is to throw intake/cam maybe heads at it.  They can net the same end result, but one is there all the time, the other you have to keep full and buy consumable based on how much you use it.

I really think it depends on the setup really... I called and had a very in depth conversation with Snow Performance...

You can tune the car to where you want it, and then add Meth just to cool the charge down... so if you run out of meth, you just run as if the charge wasn't being cooled... and according to them, our ECU is able to adjust for a small amount of meth without needing AFR tuning...

Where you get into trouble is tuning the engine to the nth degree while spraying. Then if you run out of meth your base fuel cannot support the timing your running and then the possibility of Kaboom is real...

ohhh I see the difference here now.  You were not saying use a full spray of meth that the tune would depend on,  but a spray of meth just enough to keep the spark higher than without.  get the gains without blowing cash on all the super awesome window washer fluid..

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Basically spray just enough to keep the IATs from pulling spark.

 

[TopherSho]

Basically spray just enough to keep the IATs from pulling spark.

ok this has legs for me,  so do you end up metering MORE as the rpms go up?  or is it a constant low rate spray?  if you are not tuning for it how is the spray metered ?

 

[ajpturbo]

Basically spray just enough to keep the IATs from pulling spark.

ok this has legs for me,  so do you end up metering MORE as the rpms go up?  or is it a constant low rate spray?  if you are not tuning for it how is the spray metered ?

It isnt....every log i have seen, the people spray the hell out of the meth and the tuner relies on the 02 sensors to pull at least 20% of the fuel to achieve commanded lambda(lambse). I would not prefer that method in my car

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Spray is metered by the controller/nozzle combo you use...

It's a constant rate of flow triggered by boost but this is dependent on the kit purchased..

According to Snow the ecoboost can handle this with its fuel trims without additional tuning.. although I am sure tuning for it can optimize the fuel trims no doubt...

The meth kits are boost based not rpm based.

 

[TopherSho]

Now i can see why the recommendation for it .. hmm ok,  maybe next tax season!

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Basically spray just enough to keep the IATs from pulling spark.

ok this has legs for me,  so do you end up metering MORE as the rpms go up?  or is it a constant low rate spray?  if you are not tuning for it how is the spray metered ?

It isnt....every log i have seen, the people spray the hell out of the meth and the tuner relies on the 02 sensors to pull at least 20% of the fuel to achieve commanded lambda(lambse). I would not prefer that method in my car

Pretty much what I have seen... I am betting a lower flow rate on the meth would provide the results I am looking for..

 

[ajpturbo]

Basically spray just enough to keep the IATs from pulling spark.

ok this has legs for me,  so do you end up metering MORE as the rpms go up?  or is it a constant low rate spray?  if you are not tuning for it how is the spray metered ?

It isnt....every log i have seen, the people spray the hell out of the meth and the tuner relies on the 02 sensors to pull at least 20% of the fuel to achieve commanded lambda(lambse). I would not prefer that method in my car

Pretty much what I have seen... I am betting a lower flow rate on the meth would provide the results I am looking for..

Yeah but i would still tune for it

 

[8nutz8]

I've been giving the whole IAT issue some thought as of late too.
One question for AJP- Is it possible to have a tune that keeps the fans on after the key is off? or possibly with accessory on?

In my previous platform i had a track tune that would keep the fans on full speed for 5 minutes after you turn the key off if the coolant temps were over a certain temp.

If this could be done you could at least keep some air moving when your sitting in the staging lanes and evacuate some hot air preventing heat soak a little.

 

[92BlackGT]

I'm at E45 now with a preliminary log showing strong rail pressure.....

Stay tuned....

oh dang!

If I could pump my own gas i'd be all over a E15,e20,e25 tune. In a heartbeat.. 

My pump and rails seem pretty good.  BUT I would have to have the Gas jockey understand what the heck I was saying.  as it is I have to eagle eye the dam attendants to make sure they put in 92 as it is.  it is too much hassle ..

weird law