MIL Flashing, P0087, P0301, rough idle, hesitation, fuel smell.

[Deebeaux]

Sweet. Once we figure this out, hopefully we can get it added to the Torque PID CSV. I need to check and see if IAT2 works for me or not as well.

Yeah, you need both banks to display and there are 2 different sets of O2 pids in the OBD standards list so I have  some work to do to figure it out. I'm gonna ask the guys over at scantool,net which formula they use because both banks work.

 

[Gjkrisa]

Cool

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[Gjkrisa]

Here is a link I found interesting for everyone going to also create a new post when I get more time just got to work
https://theksmith.com/software/hack-vehicle-bus-cheap-easy-part-1/
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[Deebeaux]

I loaded up some PIDs in FORScan that appeared to be representative of what we were looking for and data logged them. Here are the results..

First start after adaptation and KAM reset, about 20 minutes of idling. STFTs take about 7.5 minutes to stabilize. Graphed with coolant temp.

I then took a datalog on a 10 minute or so drive. Finding a decent way to map this in a graph seems challenging, but here are my attempts...

STFT Over Time
LTFT Over Time
STFT & LTFT Over Time

I think the below graph is telling me the Bank 1 Catalyst might be toast. When I gave it a bit of throttle on this drive it smoked white/grey, just as it did when it idled, but I suspect this is left over junk in the cat from the stuck injector. Toward the end of the drive I was able to give it decent amounts of throttle without smoke. Although Bank 1 was the one that had the toasted injector, so that might be expected.
Rear O2 Voltage over time with ETC Actual (throttle plate angle)

If you're not familiar, you can manipulate the graphs on the Datazap website. Clicking an item in the legend toward the bottom will add it to the graph, clicking the graph line will break out a separate axis scale. Some of the PIDs I logged weren't what I thought they were. Mainly the front O2s. Nor am I getting desired rail pressure in the log. I am getting actual rail pressure, and I did get it to 2088psi and a huge fountain and fire didn't appear under my hood, so I've got that going for me.

Let me know what y'all think. She drives nice, has power, doesn't stumble, just that occasional smoke I got, but that went away toward the end of my test drive. I'm going to play around with FORScan a bit more and see if I can get a good comparative log that includes data from the front O2s. My OBDLink MX will be here Wednesday, so I can get a bit better (faster) resolution of data out of the car.

Yeah, you need both banks to display and there are 2 different sets of O2 pids in the OBD standards list so I have  some work to do to figure it out. I'm gonna ask the guys over at scantool,net which formula they use because both banks work.

 

[SHOdded]

For some reason all the links are going to their FAQ section   Maybe the links are not public?

 

[Deebeaux]

Ahh, crap. I had them set as private, just flipped them to public, should work now! Oops.

For some reason all the links are going to their FAQ section

 

[SHOdded]

I looked at the first graph, and I thought:  the stfts are settling down NICE

I looked at the second graph, and I thought:  holy cannoli, batman!  I can only assume you got off the gas completely a number of times (fuel cutoff)?  That's what it looks like, I think.

Can you add the ETC_ACT to the graph for all 3 fuel trim graphs?  Then it would make a ton more sense ...

Also, what was the interval between data points?  IME OBDLink MX should get you 30ms snippets.

 

[Deebeaux]

Yes, I did let off the throttle on the drive a few times. Anyone viewing the graph should be able to modify what's visible by clicking on the parameter in the legend just above the raw data. Parameters can be added and removed at will. It's pretty sweet free software. I've made those changes in the links below as well...

STFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT
LTFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT
STFT & LTFT Over Time w/ETC_ACT This one is a little busy.

I looked through the "timems" column of the data and it looks like about 60ms or so seems to be average.

I looked at the first graph, and I thought:  the stfts are settling down NICE

I looked at the second graph, and I thought:  holy cannoli, batman!  I can only assume you got off the gas completely a number of times (fuel cutoff)?  That's what it looks like, I think.

Can you add the ETC_ACT to the graph for all 3 fuel trim graphs?  Then it would make a ton more sense ...

Also, what was the interval between data points?  IME OBDLink MX should get you 30ms snippets.

 

[SHOdded]

Gotcha!  60ms is not bad, that's what I used to get out of a v.gate type adapter.

Ok, yeah stft variations/o2 variations with throttle snaps :thumb:  Perhaps throttle not as quick to respond, or over responds, later in the game tho.  Need to spray some meth on it to keep it clean, LOL.

 

[Deebeaux]

This is some either eBay or Amazon ELM327 adapter I picked up years ago. I had some eBay bucks so I scored a OBDLink MX that'll be here next week. At least I'll have it in the car for future use.

I thought the fuel trims looked much better, but wasn't sure if they were good enough to call it "fixed."

I suppose my biggest concern is the graph showing the rear o2 sensor voltages, it appears the bank 1 sensor 2 just chills at .8V-.9V regardless of what's going on. The car didn't throw a MIL yet, but when I got home from my test drive I just shut it down and came in for dinner. I should go out and check for DTCs from that test drive. I guess the big guess is if the sensor or the catalyst on that bank is done for. 

Oh, and yeah, meth is in my future. Thinking catch can (UPR unit en route...although not sure that was a good choice with the debate of that vs. RX), meth, intake, t-stat, plugs, and a tune and she'll be right where I want her. Maybe downpipes. If a catalyst is truly dead on my car, this stuff comes earlier I suppose. I live in a non-emissions checking state.

Gotcha!  60ms is not bad, that's what I used to get out of a v.gate type adapter.

Ok, yeah stft variations/o2 variations with throttle snaps :thumb:  Perhaps throttle not as quick to respond, or over responds, later in the game tho.  Need to spray some meth on it to keep it clean, LOL.

 

[SHOdded]

Hopefully no DTCs ...  other than o2 sensors, don't know how you'd check condition of the cats.  The combo of fixing the injector and drive quality lends hope tho.

 

[Deebeaux]

I checked last night and after a drive today, no DTCs. Pretty happy about that. Went for a drive today, took some logs, found some add'l FORscan parameters that might be useful. O2S11_curma appears to be a useful output from O2 Sensor 1 Bank 1 that can be mapped to AFR, but I don't see an O2S12_curma equivalent. Really trying to find out how to read O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2, but it baffles me. I feel like I'm missing something obvious...

5+ minute 70mph cruise
STFT vs. TP% over time
LTFT vs. TP% over time
low pressure fuel vs. desired over time (scaling is odd, fuel pressure is in kPa, fluctuations are 3-4psi
high pressure fuel rail vs. desired over time

30 second 45mph cruise (traffic doesn't cooperate)
STFT vs. TP% over time
LTFT vs. TP% over time

1.5 minute 45mph cruise
STFT vs. TP% over time
LTFT vs. TP% over time

I'm still going to proceed with cautious optimism. I changed the oil today to negate the negative effects of any possible fuel dilution. Catch can is in route and we'll start working on the rest of the mod plan. Definitely going to switch to 93 w/Techron as my fuel choice, and going to make Techron concentrate a maintenance item to hopefully promote injector health.

Thanks for everyone for their help in this. I'm going to work on assembling the videos I took regarding the fuel injector install and make a "How To" video.

Hopefully no DTCs ...  other than o2 sensors, don't know how you'd check condition of the cats.  The combo of fixing the injector and drive quality lends hope tho.

 

[SHOdded]

So there's an O2S11 but no O2S21?  Sounds like the situation is under control though, and you have a solid plan going forward :thumb:  Just don't like the disparity on the LTFTs between the banks, but that may well be characteristic of a stock engine setup.  I routinely see a 2% of so diff on my NA Edge.  So no worries   Looking forward to the video(s), onward & upward!

For anyone desiring kPa to Psi conversion - 1 Kilopascal (kPa) = 0.145037738 Psi (Pound Per Square Inch)
http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx

P.S.:  The only change I would recommend is to replace the O2 sensors (don't know if they can be cleaned, even tho I have seen it done in YT), just to be sure, to start from a known good working point.

 

[Gjkrisa]

Thanks shodded

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[Deebeaux]

That's exactly right. I can't find any way to read O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2 in Torque Pro or FORScan for the life of me. I've got an OBDLink MX arriving around Wednesday that I'll just dedicate to this car. I want to get a cheapie Android phone or tablet to just Torque Pro/OBDLink in there full time. FoMoCoSHO has some pretty slick layouts for OBDLink that I'm looking forward to doing something similar.

I saw the variations between the banks on LTFT and wasn't 100% sure why. I looked at a datalog with ST&LTFT at the same time and the overall trim appeared mostly the same between the banks so I just didn't worry about it any more.

I really considered writing some scripts to adjust the conversion values in the datalogs automatically. Things like C to F and kPa to PSI. Maybe eventually. Lol.

I hope someone comes along and finds this post useful in the future. I think it's a true testament to the value of community for us enthusiasts. I'm a guy with enough basic mechanical knowledge to get my hands dirty myself in trouble, but with some help and encouragement, the job got done and the car appears fixed...for now.

EDIT: If you're curious, here's a graph of O2S11_curma for my 70mph cruising for about 10 minutes. That sine wave swing makes me think it's a normal signal from an O2 with a vehicle at cruise.

So there's an O2S11 but no O2S21?  Sounds like the situation is under control though, and you have a solid plan going forward :thumb:  Just don't like the disparity on the LTFTs between the banks, but that may well be characteristic of a stock engine setup.  So no worries   Looking forward to the video(s), onward & upward!

For anyone desiring kPa to Psi conversion - 1 Kilopascal (kPa) = 0.145037738 Psi (Pound Per Square Inch)
http://www.asknumbers.com/kilopascal-to-psi.aspx

/

 

[SHOdded]

Just remember not to have the MX plugged in all the time   Other than the possibility of false warnings (as with any other adapter), I find it too tempting to datalog all the time!

 

[Deebeaux]

I was really considering this, and I may still do it in a tank or two. I'll keep an eye on the data logs. That rear O2 that was nearly stuck at .9V all the time seems to be behaving. I'd really like to lock down how to data log BOTH front and BOTH rear O2s before I swap them. Would definitely like some good before and after data.

Catless downpipes are likely in my future, so replacing the rear O2s likely doesn't make financial sense.

P.S.:  The only change I would recommend is to replace the O2 sensors (don't know if they can be cleaned, even tho I have seen it done in YT), just to be sure, to start from a known good working point.

 

[Deebeaux]

That's kind of wild. False warnings in what sense? MILs? I have Scan Gauges in all my cars except this one and they stay plugged in 100% of the time. I know that's a little different, but I was hoping for a Ron Popiel (set-it-and-forget-it) mentality to my OBD instrumentation.

Just remember not to have the MX plugged in all the time   Other than the possibility of false warnings (as with any other adapter), I find it too tempting to datalog all the time!

 

[SHOdded]

Agreed.  What kind of emissions testing do they do in LA, if at all?  Tailpipe, visual, OBD?  We have OBD-based inspection where I live.

I think mostly Uxxxx type codes with the OBD adapters, there's a thread or two on here about that.  Keep it plugged in if you will, just be aware to not panic if you see these false alarms raised.  No idea why this happens tho.

Not the thread I was looking for, but this one does talk about it:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140

 

[Deebeaux]

In the parish (county for the rest of you) I live in, there's zero emissions testing. Depending on where you go, they might check for some things, the place I go they just make sure your MIL isn't on. My turbocharged FR-S passed inspection with flying colors.

I'll check that thread out. Thanks!

Agreed.  What kind of emissions testing do they do in LA, if at all?  Tailpipe, visual, OBD?  We have OBD-based inspection where I live.

I think mostly Uxxxx type codes with the OBD adapters, there's a thread or two on here about that.  Keep it plugged in if you will, just be aware to not panic if you see these false alarms raised.  No idea why this happens tho.

Not the thread I was looking for, but this one does talk about it:
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,5140