PP vs. Non PP?

[14 TUX BL]

I bet 80+ with an even start the non-pp will walk away with same mods ofcourse.

All things being equal, a non PP car shouldn't be able to walk away from a PP car.

2015 PP

13.48@103.12

20-30 MPH headwind

DA 667
Corrected
13.404 @ 103.741 MPH

Solid time for stock. Was this with any corn in the mix?

Rich

1.8 corn
.2 meth

People always seem to make use of a wide range of definitions for the term "stock". Been like that since I've been racing in the 80's.

Like the time I saw an F body that was running solid times for what appeared to be a bone stock car. I saw the driver walking around and asked him about it, he told me "She's stock!" So I went back over to his car and peeked inside ... everything was stripped except for the driver's seat and a few gauges on the dash. lol

In truth, stock means the way the car was built at the factory and as automotive journals actually test them. And while it's certainly interesting to see what mods like changes in fuel can do, that can't really be described as stock.

I'll have to wait and see what I run when there's a good day for it ...

 

[ElvenSho]

I bet 80+ with an even start the non-pp will walk away with same mods ofcourse.

All things being equal, a non PP car shouldn't be able to walk away from a PP car.

2015 PP

13.48@103.12

20-30 MPH headwind

DA 667
Corrected
13.404 @ 103.741 MPH

Solid time for stock. Was this with any corn in the mix?

Rich

1.8 corn
.2 meth

People always seem to make use of a wide range of definitions for the term "stock". Been like that since I've been racing in the 80's.

Like the time I saw an F body that was running solid times for what appeared to be a bone stock car. I saw the driver walking around and asked him about it, he told me "She's stock!" So I went back over to his car and peeked inside ... everything was stripped except for the driver's seat and a few gauges on the dash. lol

In truth, stock means the way the car was built at the factory and as automotive journals actually test them. And while it's certainly interesting to see what mods like changes in fuel can do, that can't really be described as stock.

I'll have to wait and see what I run when there's a good day for it ...

Idk man i am pretty sure my car will pull harder in 3rd gear then pp car in 4th. It seems like once they are at high speed pp car will go to 5th a lot sooner and would be done after that for sure.

 

[ajpturbo]

But then when u hit 5th say goodnight **** it would be over

 

[SHOnUup]

PP VS NON PP...SHO on SHO abuse....ahhh, it's just not right...lol



Rich

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'm pretty sure this dilemma can be solved with good ol math.

In the end there are just too many variables to know.

What I do know is that in 1st through 3rd, the PP has torque steer which the 2013 nonPP did not have.

 

[SHOnUup]

I'm pretty sure this dilemma can be solved with good ol math.

In the end there are just too many variables to know.

What I do know is that in 1st through 3rd, the PP has torque steer which the 2013 nonPP did not have.

Which is weird because you'd think the non pp would torque steer more, not being able to fully turn off tcs.

Rich

 

[ecoboostsho]

I agree on the torque steer fwiw. My PP definitely experiences it.

 

[panther427]

I agree on the torque steer fwiw. My PP definitely experiences it.

The pp cars should experience torque steer easier do to the mathematical multiplication of torque to the wheels the gear set offers

 

[14 TUX BL]

Ok guys, think I found the info I was looking for ...

In their December 2009 issue, Road and Track did a comparison test of a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO vs. a 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR Touring. Now R&T no longer has the article on their website, and I tried my local library but they only keep back issues up to one year. So after a bit of interweb sleuthing, I found most of the article reprinted on a forum. Here's the part of interest:

"Although well dressed in base trim, the real action is in the shouldn't-be-optional Performance Package that delivers a numerically higher final-drive gear — a strong tonic for this mature performance car's corpus. This shorter gearing surprisingly didn't improve the SHO's 0–60 time (due to an additional shift), but its advantages were palpable in the quarter mile with 3/10ths of a second shaved and a 2.2-mph faster trap speed."

In that test of the PP, they ran 0-60 in 5.2 sec and the quarter in 13.6 @ 103.2 mph. So that means the non PP they previously tested ran the same 5.2 sec 0-60, but the quarter in 13.9 @ 101 mph.

I still might take the car to the track when the weather is right, but I found R&T's info pretty interesting as they were the only stock PP vs. non PP test figures I could locate.

 

[ajpturbo]

kind of a nice reference but it still doesn't mean much...still too many variables...different cars, weather, track,track conditions,tires, driver, fuel,..need I go on...maybe they both did run 0-60 in 5.2 sec. But I couldn't call it equal because of reasons above....maybe when the non pp ran 5.2 conditions were perfect and the pp ran 5.2 so to say the gearing had an adverse effect because the times were the same  would be a grossly incomplete evaluation

 

[14 TUX BL]

I get where you're coming from, but top automotive journals already weed out variables so the items you mention are not an issue (they've been doing it for years). Conditions are standardized as it regards weather, etc., so there is no "perfect" vs. "imperfect" day of testing. And driver variables is a non issue, remember, we have AWD.

The evaluation makes complete sense, is totally reasonable and quite trustworthy.

I'm satisfied ...

 

[ajpturbo]

I get where you're coming from, but top automotive journals already weed out variables so the items you mention are not an issue (they've been doing it for years). Conditions are standardized as it regards weather, etc., so there is no "perfect" vs. "imperfect" day of testing. And driver variables is a non issue, remember, we have AWD.

The evaluation makes complete sense, is totally reasonable and quite trustworthy.

I'm satisfied ...

That's good you are satisfied but u are easily satisfied then......to be honest it means nothing really...the conditions are sooooo far from standardized....I don't care if it's 8 wheel drive..lol how do they eliminate the weather as a variable when they tested the cars at different times at different places on different days lol...it's a nice opinion of the writer but it's about the least scientific of an experiment or test that there could possibly be lol...everything I mention is an issue including that you are clueless lol

 

[SHOnUup]

It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...

Rich

 

[14 TUX BL]

It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

As far as tunes go, I've been modding since the 80's. No longer interested, my baby's staying 100% bumper-to-bumper bone stock.

 

[BiGMaC]

It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

Agree with you on all points.  I think the use of the car as well as the desires for performance have to be weighed.  For me, I was after a DD that was quick... I don't race her... And there's no place to drive fast in this country except the track.  I wanted ACC, it really reduces my drive fatigue, compensates for traffic flow, and adds some safety... Ford won't put ACC on a PP SHO... So I chose creature comforts and daily quickness.. I did mod enough so far (see my sig) to get my 0-60 a little below 4 sec.
So that's how my choice was made.... Either version is a sleeper and a real hoot to drive.

 

[SHOnUup]

It's so close to me in performance...any little change in variables could sway the "winner", if that's what you're looking for.

My advice...throw a tune on it and have some fun...

Rich

A mature and intelligent comment, praise God!

It is true that 3/10 sec is not enough of a difference that someone asleep at the wheel in a PP car will beat a non PP car. But all things being equal, the PP's 3/10 sec quarter mile advantage because of it's more aggressive gearing is definitely worth the price of admission.

As far as tunes go, I've been modding since the 80's. No longer interested, my baby's staying 100% bumper-to-bumper bone stock.

Rich

 

[68_GT]

did anyone discuss the other options the PP includes ?

all things being otherwise completely equal the SHO with the lower gear ratio will have a performance advantage


2013 Ford Taurus SHO with Performance Package

The brakes get a larger master cylinder bore for a pedal ratio change that gives you less travel at the top of the pedal for a firmer feel, and the rear vented brake rotors are 30 percent larger. The already massive vented front rotors get dual piston 48-mm calipers with performance friction pads, and the pistons themselves have high-temp dust boots and seals that pull the pads more effectively away from the discs for less heat buildup.

Chassis upgrades include stiffer front springs to reduce understeer and a front anti-roll bar that's actually a little smaller to get the car to roll and pitch in a more predictable and balanced fashion. The shock absorbers have been modified for better low-speed damping, and the electric-assist steering has been recalibrated for better feedback from the big 20-in Goodyear Eagle F1 245/45 tires mounted on distinctive SHO cookie-cutter style wheels.

Extra track-day heat is carried away by a pair of water-to-oil coolers plumed into a radiator core with extra capacity. One helps the PTO on the transmission to run 16 percent cooler, and the other cools the engine oil.

In our lapping session I found the car surprisingly civilized, supple and quiet, despite its ability to turn in nicely and then drift in controlled, balanced fashion. The engine is blazingly fast down the straights and comes off the corners with hard-hitting torque (and makes a lovely sound while doing it), and the easily modulated brakes have no trouble catching the line drive to shortstop. For a big car, it bleeds off speed easily and impressively.

Complaints? Well, the seat bolsters could be more supportive for this level of track grip, and the tach face is about the size of your wristwatch. Also, I found the automatic upshifts in the Sport mode to be a bit conservative while coming off corners—though they got better the more you put your foot in it. Still, the paddle shifters are the way to go when true fun and instant gratification are called for.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

That article like many written about the SHO is completely out of context where the brakes are involved. Brakes are the same with the except of the pads. That blurb is comparing Gen 4.1 to 4.2

 

[ShoBoat]

I love my PP but it's not all roses either, is it quicker than a non PP it felt a little quicker when I test drove both before purchase. The additional liquid cooling was the main reason for my choice and the ability to turn off the stability system. However I have also had my front hubs replace 3 times. These are PP only hubs lol. 


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[ZSHO]

I have been doing a little research and unfortunetly there is very little credible facts to say the least between the two available,found an enthralling site which hopefully is feasible in many aspects and should benefit .Z    http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Taurus-Timeslip-26105.html  hopefull it will satisfy the OP questions related to this issue.Z