So the radiator hose I used was strong enough to hold it in place with very little movement, it didn't really rest on the AC lines.
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tial wastegate for charge piping
- Thread starter ajpturbo
- Start date
Here's a "pro tip" for installing/changing springs in your Tial wastegate. I originally found this suggestion here, so I can't take credit, but I also wanted to point out a couple other observations.
Try using a "Quick Grip" clamp to compress the springs!
Pick a screw, any ONE screw and remove it. Then place the wg in the clamp with the empty screw pocket aligned with the backbone of the clamp. This will give you room to remove all the other screws with the allen wrench.
NOTE: Once all screws have been removed, place the end of the clamp on the floor and apply firm downward pressure before pulling the release trigger to prevent parts from flying everywhere!
Place your new springs and put the assembly back between the jaws. Slowly compress the clamp and confirm your springs are properly seated in their grooves (both ends).
Once fully compressed, reinstall your screws.
I opted to use the Irwin Quick-Grip "Medium-Duty" clamp, which has slightly larger jaw pads than the light duty version and 300lb of clamp force. The unit pictured is the 6" size with 3-1/16" throat depth.
Hopefully this saves someone some broken fingers, eyeballs, or the family cat from the ill fate of high spring pressure.
Try using a "Quick Grip" clamp to compress the springs!
Pick a screw, any ONE screw and remove it. Then place the wg in the clamp with the empty screw pocket aligned with the backbone of the clamp. This will give you room to remove all the other screws with the allen wrench.
NOTE: Once all screws have been removed, place the end of the clamp on the floor and apply firm downward pressure before pulling the release trigger to prevent parts from flying everywhere!
Place your new springs and put the assembly back between the jaws. Slowly compress the clamp and confirm your springs are properly seated in their grooves (both ends).
Once fully compressed, reinstall your screws.
I opted to use the Irwin Quick-Grip "Medium-Duty" clamp, which has slightly larger jaw pads than the light duty version and 300lb of clamp force. The unit pictured is the 6" size with 3-1/16" throat depth.
Hopefully this saves someone some broken fingers, eyeballs, or the family cat from the ill fate of high spring pressure.
Here is how I performed AJP Turbo's wastegate mod on my 2013 XSport. Tuning still to be completed...
DISCLAIMER: The long term durability of the bonded joint in this write-up has not been established. Attempt at your own risk. Consider adding a 1.5” coupler with hose clamps as a back-up to the bonded joint.
HARDWARE
Tial MV-S Wastegate Kit (includes v-band flanges, springs, fittings, plugs, etc)
SHO Intake Elbow with Noisemaker Port (FORD PN AA5Z-6F073-B)
SHO TIP Sensor Screws (x2, FORD PN W506843-S439)
1.5” OD Stainless Steel Elbow (KEGWORDS PN 44-731/1H)
1/2” Corbin Clamps (x6, NAPA PN 705-1302)
1/4” Vacuum Hose, 6ft package (NAPA PN NBH H453)
1/4” Vacuum Tee (NAPA PN CRB 2607)
TOOLS/MISC
J-B Weld Plastic Bonder
Permatex Ultra Copper Silicone Gasket Maker
80-grit sandpaper
Brakleen (non-chlorinated)
Lint free cloth
Q-Tips
Dremel w/ Cut-off wheel (to cut off plastic molded hose clamps from SHO tube assembly)
Bench grider/file (to size stainless shoulder, as needed)
Vise (to hold stainless elbow for cutting)
Hacksaw/Band saw (to cut stainless elbow)
Welder (outsource, as necessary)
PART 1 - Hose Configuration (SHO vs XSport)
SHO - Simple. Use your OE intake hose assembly after removing noisemaker.
XSport - From SHO assembly (AA5Z-6F073-B), cut off plastic molded hose clamp to remove 3" dia hose to CAC. OPTIONAL: Cut off plastic molded hose clamp on 2.5" hose (to TB). Remove the metal band clamp from the 3" portion of discarded hose and reinstall on the short section of hose. You will re-use the OE 3" hose from the CAC to the elbow.
PART 2 - Elbow Installation (same process for SHO or XSport)
Test fit the stainless elbow in the noisemaker port. You want a VERY TIGHT fit. Skim the shoulder of the stainless elbow (bench grinder or file) as necessary to allow a very tight fit. With a DRY joint, you should be able to push/twist the elbow into place BY HAND. HINT: It will be much easier to do this with the plastic elbow removed from the vehicle.
With the stainless elbow installed in the elbow, reinstall into the vehicle, and tighten down hose connections. Be sure to confirm the TIP sensor clears the engine cover, when installed. NOTE: XSport owners will need new sensor screws! The XSport sensor screws are too long and will strip the thread pockets on the SHO elbow (ask me how I know).
Rotate the stainless elbow until it is pointing in the desired direction. Be sure to consider the size of the wastegate and the length of the v-band flanges, as these will need to be welded to the stainless elbow. Also consider the vacuum banjo fittings (from the Tial kit) and clearances to allow engine movement and hood closure.
Mark the stainless elbow and plastic noisemaker port to ensure proper alignment for adhesive later on. Mark the wastegate end of the stainless elbow where it needs to be cut.
Remove plastic elbow from vehicle. Confirm orienting marks are present, and remove the stainless elbow. Cut the stainless elbow at the desired angle. File or grind to a flat plane.
Weld v-band flanges to stainless elbow.
Note depth of shoulder protrusion into plastic elbow. Sand inside of plastic tube with 80-grit sand paper to roughen surface.
Clean scuffed noisemaker port AND the shoulder of the sainless elbow THOROUGHLY with a LINT FREE rag and solvent (I used non-chlorinated Brakleen).
Using a q-tip, apply a bead of Ultra Copper to the last 0.25" of the plastic elbow.
Mix 2-part urethane adhesive (I used JB Weld Plastic Bonder, Black). Apply to scuffed inside surface of the noisemaker port. Only a very thin layer is required - just enough to fill the scuffs. Too much will push out into the Ultra Copper sealant. Cut off the fuzzy end of a Q-tip leaving the paper shaft to apply the Plastic Bonder.
Insert the elbow 1/8"-1/4". Apply a light coating of the plastic bonder adhesive to the perimeter of the elbow. With a firm even pressure, press the stainless elbow into the noisemaker port with a slight twisting motion until it is fully seated and your marks are aligned.
Immediately wipe excess adhesive up with a paper towel (outside and inside). No solvent should be necessary. Leave to cure per your adhesive & gasket maker instructions.
Install wastegate, and hook up your boost reference.
DONE!
DISCLAIMER: The long term durability of the bonded joint in this write-up has not been established. Attempt at your own risk. Consider adding a 1.5” coupler with hose clamps as a back-up to the bonded joint.
HARDWARE
Tial MV-S Wastegate Kit (includes v-band flanges, springs, fittings, plugs, etc)
SHO Intake Elbow with Noisemaker Port (FORD PN AA5Z-6F073-B)
SHO TIP Sensor Screws (x2, FORD PN W506843-S439)
1.5” OD Stainless Steel Elbow (KEGWORDS PN 44-731/1H)
1/2” Corbin Clamps (x6, NAPA PN 705-1302)
1/4” Vacuum Hose, 6ft package (NAPA PN NBH H453)
1/4” Vacuum Tee (NAPA PN CRB 2607)
TOOLS/MISC
J-B Weld Plastic Bonder
Permatex Ultra Copper Silicone Gasket Maker
80-grit sandpaper
Brakleen (non-chlorinated)
Lint free cloth
Q-Tips
Dremel w/ Cut-off wheel (to cut off plastic molded hose clamps from SHO tube assembly)
Bench grider/file (to size stainless shoulder, as needed)
Vise (to hold stainless elbow for cutting)
Hacksaw/Band saw (to cut stainless elbow)
Welder (outsource, as necessary)
PART 1 - Hose Configuration (SHO vs XSport)
SHO - Simple. Use your OE intake hose assembly after removing noisemaker.
XSport - From SHO assembly (AA5Z-6F073-B), cut off plastic molded hose clamp to remove 3" dia hose to CAC. OPTIONAL: Cut off plastic molded hose clamp on 2.5" hose (to TB). Remove the metal band clamp from the 3" portion of discarded hose and reinstall on the short section of hose. You will re-use the OE 3" hose from the CAC to the elbow.
PART 2 - Elbow Installation (same process for SHO or XSport)
Test fit the stainless elbow in the noisemaker port. You want a VERY TIGHT fit. Skim the shoulder of the stainless elbow (bench grinder or file) as necessary to allow a very tight fit. With a DRY joint, you should be able to push/twist the elbow into place BY HAND. HINT: It will be much easier to do this with the plastic elbow removed from the vehicle.
With the stainless elbow installed in the elbow, reinstall into the vehicle, and tighten down hose connections. Be sure to confirm the TIP sensor clears the engine cover, when installed. NOTE: XSport owners will need new sensor screws! The XSport sensor screws are too long and will strip the thread pockets on the SHO elbow (ask me how I know).
Rotate the stainless elbow until it is pointing in the desired direction. Be sure to consider the size of the wastegate and the length of the v-band flanges, as these will need to be welded to the stainless elbow. Also consider the vacuum banjo fittings (from the Tial kit) and clearances to allow engine movement and hood closure.
Mark the stainless elbow and plastic noisemaker port to ensure proper alignment for adhesive later on. Mark the wastegate end of the stainless elbow where it needs to be cut.
Remove plastic elbow from vehicle. Confirm orienting marks are present, and remove the stainless elbow. Cut the stainless elbow at the desired angle. File or grind to a flat plane.
Weld v-band flanges to stainless elbow.
Note depth of shoulder protrusion into plastic elbow. Sand inside of plastic tube with 80-grit sand paper to roughen surface.
Clean scuffed noisemaker port AND the shoulder of the sainless elbow THOROUGHLY with a LINT FREE rag and solvent (I used non-chlorinated Brakleen).
Using a q-tip, apply a bead of Ultra Copper to the last 0.25" of the plastic elbow.
Mix 2-part urethane adhesive (I used JB Weld Plastic Bonder, Black). Apply to scuffed inside surface of the noisemaker port. Only a very thin layer is required - just enough to fill the scuffs. Too much will push out into the Ultra Copper sealant. Cut off the fuzzy end of a Q-tip leaving the paper shaft to apply the Plastic Bonder.
Insert the elbow 1/8"-1/4". Apply a light coating of the plastic bonder adhesive to the perimeter of the elbow. With a firm even pressure, press the stainless elbow into the noisemaker port with a slight twisting motion until it is fully seated and your marks are aligned.
Immediately wipe excess adhesive up with a paper towel (outside and inside). No solvent should be necessary. Leave to cure per your adhesive & gasket maker instructions.
Install wastegate, and hook up your boost reference.
DONE!
BOT_ROCKET
New member
So I'm trying to decide how to mount this on my FuSpo and I'm not sure if I the route I'm planning is the safest. My current plan is to simply make a steel t-pipe and splice it into the middle of the rubber hose. Is it safe to cut that hose, or will cutting it compromise the integrity of the hose? I plan to fab up a custom intake system, but that is probably a ways out.
BOT_ROCKET said:
I'm not at all familiar with the Fusion. Does this look like what you have?
I assume you're talking about putting a tee into the hose from the CAC to the throttle body (pictured here toward the left of the picture/passenger side)?
If you went this route, you'd want to make sure your tee has some good tube beads to keep your hose from popping off, and use some wide beefy clamps.
Also, you'd want to be sure you don't remove too much hose material to splice in the tee. This hose needs to allow for some flexibility of relative motion between the engine and the fixed position CAC outlet port. It's also kind of hard to tell from the images I've seen, but you'll want to make sure you have room to close your hood. Looks tight under there!The preceding is just my opinion.
BOT_ROCKET said:
See attached. I would hypothesize the dashed yellow line would provide the most critical flex point in that hose. As the engine rocks fore or aft, I would expect the radius of that dashed line to decrease and increase (flatten), respectively. This would probably not be the ideal place to splice in a rigid steel tee.
Keep in mind, this is just my HYPOTHESIS. Further experimentation is needed for this to become theory or law.
I expect others will weigh in as well.If/when you decide to take on the challenge, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to have an extra OE hose available in case of unexpected failure.
BOT_ROCKET
New member
I *think* I could cut out the section that I've marked in red and have enough straight hose to get clamps on there. I've created my own bead roller out of a modified wire crimper. I also picked up an exhaust pipe cutter so I can create my own pipes with good beads.
I'm pretty sure if I mount the valve close to the pipe there should be room. I think this weekend I will pill the hose off and get some measurements so I can start a custom pipe. That way I wont have to worry about cutting the hose.
I suppose that would be the preferred method so I can return to stock if needed. I'm sure buying a factory hose like that costs roughly one million dollars.
I'm pretty sure if I mount the valve close to the pipe there should be room. I think this weekend I will pill the hose off and get some measurements so I can start a custom pipe. That way I wont have to worry about cutting the hose.
I suppose that would be the preferred method so I can return to stock if needed. I'm sure buying a factory hose like that costs roughly one million dollars.
FearlessAZ
New member
I was looking into getting this done soon. I just want to double check all the things that I would need to do this.
Tial 38mm mvs
38mm v band dump tube (cut and bent to liking)
1/4" vacuum hose
1/4" vacuum tee
Small length of radiator hose
couple of hose clamps
Am I missing anything?
Tial 38mm mvs
38mm v band dump tube (cut and bent to liking)
1/4" vacuum hose
1/4" vacuum tee
Small length of radiator hose
couple of hose clamps
Am I missing anything?
BOT_ROCKET said:
You would need to find somewhere to secure the wastegate as to not add stress to the rubber hose. Otherwise I would foresee some issues with leaking and/or eventually not staying secured to the rubber hose.
One reason it works so well on the Taurus is because the noisemaker section of the charge pipe is already reinforced with harder plastic. It can handle the weight of the WG just fine.
Linemonkey
Member
Quick question. What is the diameter of the dump tube? I found several like this, on ebay, with the vband already welded. Would this work?
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Stainless-Dump-tube-Flanged-for-V-Band-for-Tial-MVS-38mm-Wastegate-/262830922805?nav=SEARCH
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http://m.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Stainless-Dump-tube-Flanged-for-V-Band-for-Tial-MVS-38mm-Wastegate-/262830922805?nav=SEARCH
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Linemonkey said:
I'm pretty sure the outlet flange is a smaller diameter than the inlet, so you'd want to make sure that flange is compatible with the inlet side, otherwise you might need to weld a second larger flange to step up the diameter. (See picture 4 in post #66 above. I welded two vband flanges together to go from 1.5" tube up to the inlet diameter.
As far as OD of the tube, you'd need 1.5" to match the OD of the noisemaker port.
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Linemonkey said:
I think, but you will need to take one of the Vbands that come with the tial wastegate and weld it to the the Vband on the dumptube you buy. The vband on the dump tube you buy is meant to go on the outlet of the wastegate.....The way I did mine, I connected the dumptube to from the noisemaker hole to the INLET of the wastegate and the Vband on the tial is smaller if I remember.
So essentially you weld one of the tial vbands to the vband of the dumptube so you can use the clamp to connect the dumptube to the inlet of the tial gate then I just used rad hose to connect the dumptube to the noisemaker hole.
Linemonkey
Member
I see. That makes sense. Thanks for the reply!
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The sizing on the MV-S is 1.75" for the OD for the VBand side that you need.
I detailed all of my parts used, for my setup, here: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7171.msg109449.html#msg109449
I detailed all of my parts used, for my setup, here: http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,7171.msg109449.html#msg109449