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Trying to get meth dialed in... Issues
- Thread starter JCam550
- Start date
Doesn't look bad albeit about the same.
You still have the lean spikes at the upshifts...Look at measured afr. The 02's are pulling a lot of fuel due to the addition of the meth that the ECU has no way to account for...So while it's doing it's best to maintain commanded AFR by pulling fuel, you get the boost spikes at the shift and the lean condition happens....Fortunately the ecoboost is tolerant of that and it doesn't knock....The meth helps that along with spark that is set well. You had a little knock retard but nothing to worry about....I like seeing a small amount that lets you know you aren't leaving power on the table
You can tell you are running meth. Running a lot of spark for the load levels....That's from the meth cooling things down and the cool ambient temps at the time....You should log IAT2 that's the temp in the manifold that spark is based on
You see how far away the stft's are from 1.00
You should never have that in a well tuned car but you have no choice since the meth you are adding is unmetered by the ECU....You could adjust the airflow model in the tune but then if you aren't running meth you would see the stft's swing the other way....So pick which way you want it to be off.
And I'm not sure why your wastegate duty cycle needs to be so high...I've seen lower with more boost
You still have the lean spikes at the upshifts...Look at measured afr. The 02's are pulling a lot of fuel due to the addition of the meth that the ECU has no way to account for...So while it's doing it's best to maintain commanded AFR by pulling fuel, you get the boost spikes at the shift and the lean condition happens....Fortunately the ecoboost is tolerant of that and it doesn't knock....The meth helps that along with spark that is set well. You had a little knock retard but nothing to worry about....I like seeing a small amount that lets you know you aren't leaving power on the table
You can tell you are running meth. Running a lot of spark for the load levels....That's from the meth cooling things down and the cool ambient temps at the time....You should log IAT2 that's the temp in the manifold that spark is based on
You see how far away the stft's are from 1.00
You should never have that in a well tuned car but you have no choice since the meth you are adding is unmetered by the ECU....You could adjust the airflow model in the tune but then if you aren't running meth you would see the stft's swing the other way....So pick which way you want it to be off.
And I'm not sure why your wastegate duty cycle needs to be so high...I've seen lower with more boost
JCam550 said:Thanks AJP. I'm learning a lot from your reviews of the logs. I have a separate tune to run if I decide to not run meth so I'd rather have this one dialed in for the meth.
How does the boost look? Is there anymore there?
Yeah but its not dialed in from a fuel standpoint....look at the stft
No there is no more boost lol....your wastegate duty is 100%....i think it has something to do with how torrie commands the boost but cant really say...
Maybe later i can post one of my logs if computer will let me lol
Frozen Blue
New member
AJP turbo said:JCam550 said:Thanks AJP. I'm learning a lot from your reviews of the logs. I have a separate tune to run if I decide to not run meth so I'd rather have this one dialed in for the meth.
How does the boost look? Is there anymore there?
Yeah but its not dialed in from a fuel standpoint....look at the stft
No there is no more boost lol....your wastegate duty is 100%....i think it has something to do with how torrie commands the boost but cant really say...
Maybe later i can post one of my logs if computer will let me lol
Would the high WGDC and low boost be indicative of a boost leak? EBC keeps trying to add boost but the turbos can't overcome the leak to attain the commanded boost? If so those little turbos would be throwing some heat!
JCam550 said:OK, yet another log. Looks like Torrie is getting it dialed in. A/F looks really good. No Knock!!!!
Cool, im at work, will look tonight.
Chances are, you were never getting knock...the knock sesnor value is the amount of ignition retard to avoid knock
AJP turbo said:JCam550 said:OK, yet another log. Looks like Torrie is getting it dialed in. A/F looks really good. No Knock!!!!
Cool, im at work, will look tonight.
Chances are, you were never getting knock...the knock sesnor value is the amount of ignition retard to avoid knock
Yeah I don't think I was either. Thanks!!!
Looking good, I am doing mine at the same time and Torrie seems to be taking two different approaches. You are running a ton of timing and I'm not, but I have a little more boost. I realize timing gets pulled with increased boost but it is a significant different in timing but only a little difference in boost. Performance markers and environmental conditions seem to be nearly the same. Here is my latest log, I will let AJ tell me how wrong that assessment is LOL. Pulls like a raped ape huh!? 60-90 times on this latest revision where just a hair faster than my last, but I had 1000 feet better DA on my last revision log.
JCam550 said:OK, yet another log. Looks like Torrie is getting it dialed in. A/F looks really good. No Knock!!!!
JCam,
I still have no idea why your wastegate duty cycle is so high and you are only getting the boost you are getting. Maybe a question to torrie is in order. I think it has to do with something he is doing and not due to a limitation of your car.
You are getting a huge boost spike on the 2-3 so I hope your meth doesn't give out on you...You will probably be ok but your fuel pressure is really low temporarily even with meth.
Your STFT's will remain jacked up due to the meth but oh well.
While it's true that you are getting no knock retard, you are riding a spark limiter. Although that's not a bad thing, you are getting no spark increases from the knock sensor even when it would allow it. The meth is allowing more spark but you will not get it. When your knock sensor value has flatlined that's unnatural.
But no knock retard is safe. You are getting little lean spikes on the upshifts but I believe that's because all the fuel that is being pulled(see stft's), then in the middle of the ECU attempting to decrease fuel delivery you get a boost spike and the lean condition happens until an adjustment is made.
Although you could run more spark,, you are getting an obvious increase over people without meth so that's where a lot of your power is coming from. Your sustained boost isn't really high, your spark is.....Car should run well I bet
Scott4957 said:Looking good, I am doing mine at the same time and Torrie seems to be taking two different approaches. You are running a ton of timing and I'm not, but I have a little more boost. I realize timing gets pulled with increased boost but it is a significant different in timing but only a little difference in boost. Performance markers and environmental conditions seem to be nearly the same. Here is my latest log, I will let AJ tell me how wrong that assessment is LOL. Pulls like a raped ape huh!? 60-90 times on this latest revision where just a hair faster than my last, but I had 1000 feet better DA on my last revision log.
Scott,
I'm just looking at the log and typing randomly. Your wastegate duty is much more natural than JCams, it's smoother and not completely maxxed out. You both are commanding about the same boost. But you must be shooting more meth because your stft's are bottomed out. The ECU is pulling as much fuel as it's allowed. Because you are running pig rich at times, below .70 lambda at times.
Scott you never get fuel pressure dips....Makes sense if you are dumping aton of meth and the ECU is pulling fuel. And same thing on the knock sensor...You could probably use more spark but you are riding a spark limiter..See your knock sensor flatline? Once I adjusted the spark limiter it's possible to run conservative spark curves but then the knock sensor gives you the max allowed so the best of both worlds can be achieved.
Scott you and JCam when I checked at 3rd gear at 5000 rpm you are both about 1.88-1.90 load and scott you are at 12 degrees and jcam is 18 degrees. That's substantial. I didn't expect to see that much. Scott maybe torrie can give you more spark with more revisions?
Insight into wastegastes and wastegate duty cycles
https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/what-wastegate-duty-cycle-and-boost-curve-can-tell-us-about-our-turbo-setups/
https://cobbtuning.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200025164-How-Subaru-s-Factory-Boost-Control-System-Works
http://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/how-it-works/how-it-works-wastegates-explained/
https://stratifiedauto.com/blog/what-wastegate-duty-cycle-and-boost-curve-can-tell-us-about-our-turbo-setups/
https://cobbtuning.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/200025164-How-Subaru-s-Factory-Boost-Control-System-Works
http://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/how-it-works/how-it-works-wastegates-explained/
AJP turbo said:Scott4957 said:Looking good, I am doing mine at the same time and Torrie seems to be taking two different approaches. You are running a ton of timing and I'm not, but I have a little more boost. I realize timing gets pulled with increased boost but it is a significant different in timing but only a little difference in boost. Performance markers and environmental conditions seem to be nearly the same. Here is my latest log, I will let AJ tell me how wrong that assessment is LOL. Pulls like a raped ape huh!? 60-90 times on this latest revision where just a hair faster than my last, but I had 1000 feet better DA on my last revision log.
Scott,
I'm just looking at the log and typing randomly. Your wastegate duty is much more natural than JCams, it's smoother and not completely maxxed out. You both are commanding about the same boost. But you must be shooting more meth because your stft's are bottomed out. The ECU is pulling as much fuel as it's allowed. Because you are running pig rich at times, below .70 lambda at times.
Scott you never get fuel pressure dips....Makes sense if you are dumping aton of meth and the ECU is pulling fuel. And same thing on the knock sensor...You could probably use more spark but you are riding a spark limiter..See your knock sensor flatline? Once I adjusted the spark limiter it's possible to run conservative spark curves but then the knock sensor gives you the max allowed so the best of both worlds can be achieved.
Scott you and JCam when I checked at 3rd gear at 5000 rpm you are both about 1.88-1.90 load and scott you are at 12 degrees and jcam is 18 degrees. That's substantial. I didn't expect to see that much. Scott maybe torrie can give you more spark with more revisions?
I agree on all points, and here is the next revision, much more timing! And wow can you feel it. This was the first run where the 4th gear pull really had all my attention LOL. Looks like he is upping the WGDC each time to up the boost? He commanded the same boost as the last revision but I think it was the WGDC that gave more? Timing is a given, tons more. Sorry OP, didn't want to threadjack.
A datalog-only thread would really only work if people are posting datalogs there without intent towards troubleshooting. If the datalogs are posted with intent towards troubleshooting, they should be in their own threads, such as this one.AJP turbo said:Cool ill look in a bit....is there a thread just to post logs? Maybe we need that
SHOdded said:A datalog-only thread would really only work if people are posting datalogs there without intent towards troubleshooting. If the datalogs are posted with intent towards troubleshooting, they should be in their own threads, such as this one.AJP turbo said:Cool ill look in a bit....is there a thread just to post logs? Maybe we need that
Ok, I was just thinking for a place for people to say hey check out my log and tell me what you think of it. Instead of posting your log in someone's thread.....It seems like when I start looking at logs then other people start throwing there's in too lol....I would do the same lol
Scott have you considered running less meth? Like nozzle or duty cycle? I'm not sure how your controller works.....You are really rich which isn't the worst thing but you have room....Your stft's are bottomed out still and the ECU is not able to pull enough fuel to hit desired lambda.....It wants .80 lambda and you are in the .70's.
Might be getting fuel dilution and just wasting Meth and greasy plugs maybe I dunno.
I'm looking at a similar spot in your new log to make an apples to apples comparo. At 5k in 3rd gear you are at about 1.90 load again and now at 14 degrees instead of 12. So yeah you should feel a bit more power...Remember spark follows load. The look up tables in the tune are load and spark. Boost can be different at particular loads based on conditions.
I don't know if TOrrie added spark or your conditions and temps called for that spark increase....IAT2 is the manifold temp that spark compensations are based on....Could've been cooler and I don't mean ambient temps only IAT2 will tell you.
And typically you don't add wastegate duty cycle to change boost. You command more or less torque from the engine and the wastegate dynamics adjust to deliver the airflow to hit the desired TIP value set by the ECU.. Or the less than ideal way is to just use a multiplier to the desired TIP value.
Might be getting fuel dilution and just wasting Meth and greasy plugs maybe I dunno.
I'm looking at a similar spot in your new log to make an apples to apples comparo. At 5k in 3rd gear you are at about 1.90 load again and now at 14 degrees instead of 12. So yeah you should feel a bit more power...Remember spark follows load. The look up tables in the tune are load and spark. Boost can be different at particular loads based on conditions.
I don't know if TOrrie added spark or your conditions and temps called for that spark increase....IAT2 is the manifold temp that spark compensations are based on....Could've been cooler and I don't mean ambient temps only IAT2 will tell you.
And typically you don't add wastegate duty cycle to change boost. You command more or less torque from the engine and the wastegate dynamics adjust to deliver the airflow to hit the desired TIP value set by the ECU.. Or the less than ideal way is to just use a multiplier to the desired TIP value.
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