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Turbo 'flutter' during low rpm / high gear acceleration...
- Thread starter pfbz
- Start date
No, honestly I forgot about it.rondeau13 said:I am having the exact exact exact problem on my 2012 f150 ecoboost have you guys found the fix yet?! I joined this forum just for this thread.
I will try to remember to log mine and post up the results.
I can log mine as well and post the results. If I remember correctly my waste gate duty cycle while the flutter happens is a fairly jagged line on the graph. So I don't know if it's a mechanical problem or a tinning problem. I had a 5 star towing tune and I could get the flutter to happen but the boost was lower on that tune and now with this performance *** tune which is totally crazy and awesome I can get the flutter going and it's very apparent. The boost also comes on at lower rpm and higher psi with the *** tune. I know some guys on other forms/threads talking about a ripped diaphragm in the waste gate. I'm leaning toward the waste gate solenoid not being strong enough to hold the boost therefore it flutters. But would it make sense that the log would pick this up if it ecu wasn't telling it to do that?
The issue is the wastegate opening and closing aggressively. Here's the proof. Now what's causing it I don't know. Maybe a weak wastegate spring? Or what ever sensor that controls the wastegate solenoid is maybe bad? I talked to my Turner, he says it's a truck issue not a tune issues. And that makes sense because the issue is happening with multiple tunes.
Id have to see the entire log but i wouldnt really worry about the wastegate reading...it smooths out rather quickly..in the beginning when u nail the throttle it will take time for the ecu to fine tune the wastegate duty.
But whats more concerning is ur throttle angle shows 90...it shouldnt exceed 82...max throttle angle allowed scalar has obviously been changed...at high boost pressures the risk with a 90 degree throttle angle is the rushing air wont allow it to close and the 8 degree difference does nothing to obstruct airflow so no performance gains
But whats more concerning is ur throttle angle shows 90...it shouldnt exceed 82...max throttle angle allowed scalar has obviously been changed...at high boost pressures the risk with a 90 degree throttle angle is the rushing air wont allow it to close and the 8 degree difference does nothing to obstruct airflow so no performance gains
But that's the thing it happens when I'm not mashing the throttle to get it to behave like this. The pictures I posted show me mashing the peddle after lightly applying for a few seconds to log the flutter the because I don't want anything to explode I mash it down because at higher rpm the behaviour stops. I can lightly apply throttle and hold it there for ten seconds (that's a long time) and it will fuller the entire time.
quote author=ajpturbo link=topic=4958.msg85437#msg85437 date=1444257915]
Id have to see the entire log but i wouldnt really worry about the wastegate reading...it smooths out rather quickly..in the beginning when u nail the throttle it will take time for the ecu to fine tune the wastegate duty.
But whats more concerning is ur throttle angle shows 90...it shouldnt exceed 82...max throttle angle allowed scalar has obviously been changed...at high boost pressures the risk with a 90 degree throttle angle is the rushing air wont allow it to close and the 8 degree difference does nothing to obstruct airflow so no performance gains
[/quote]
quote author=ajpturbo link=topic=4958.msg85437#msg85437 date=1444257915]
Id have to see the entire log but i wouldnt really worry about the wastegate reading...it smooths out rather quickly..in the beginning when u nail the throttle it will take time for the ecu to fine tune the wastegate duty.
But whats more concerning is ur throttle angle shows 90...it shouldnt exceed 82...max throttle angle allowed scalar has obviously been changed...at high boost pressures the risk with a 90 degree throttle angle is the rushing air wont allow it to close and the 8 degree difference does nothing to obstruct airflow so no performance gains
[/quote]
I only see wastegate duty cycle fluctuating right around when u nail it ...and at part throttle the wastegate duty is always all over the place
It really could be a multitude of things and without the tune its rough...if the desired tip multiplier and or desired tip adder is turned up in an attempt to raise boost then the noise u are hearing may not be wastegate noise at all..if the desired tip is up the throttle will do what it wants to give the commanded torque and if the throttle is partially closed like at part throttle and the turbo is being told to ramp up then ive heard fluttering noises because the airflow is fighting the throttle plate
It really could be a multitude of things and without the tune its rough...if the desired tip multiplier and or desired tip adder is turned up in an attempt to raise boost then the noise u are hearing may not be wastegate noise at all..if the desired tip is up the throttle will do what it wants to give the commanded torque and if the throttle is partially closed like at part throttle and the turbo is being told to ramp up then ive heard fluttering noises because the airflow is fighting the throttle plate
OK I received a tune revision from the tuner I will try it and see. Thanks for your input it definitely shead some light on this for me
I will report back after I try a few things
I will report back after I try a few things
ajpturbo said:I only see wastegate duty cycle fluctuating right around when u nail it ...and at part throttle the wastegate duty is always all over the place
It really could be a multitude of things and without the tune its rough...if the desired tip multiplier and or desired tip adder is turned up in an attempt to raise boost then the noise u are hearing may not be wastegate noise at all..if the desired tip is up the throttle will do what it wants to give the commanded torque and if the throttle is partially closed like at part throttle and the turbo is being told to ramp up then ive heard fluttering noises because the airflow is fighting the throttle plate
Are you seeing oil/water accumulation in places like the intercooler, intake piping, turbo piping etc? Checked the pipes for cracks (they can be hard to spot, particularly next to the clamps)? Clamps nice & tight? Check & clean the MAP sensors with MAF cleaner also.
2013, right? The wastegates are electronically controlled, don't know how different it is from previous years in actual operation. Here's a TurboSmart (mechanical) replacement unit with installation instructions:
http://www.stage3motorsports.com/TS-0215-1367-2013-2014-F150-EcoBoost-TurboSmart-SP-Supersonic-BOV.html
http://www.stage3motorsports.com/assets/images/Turbosmart/Install%20Instructions/TS-0215-1367%202013-2014%20F150%20EcoBoost%20TurboSmart%20SP%20Supersonic%20BOV%20Instructions.pdf
Tech + marketing blather:
http://www.turbosmartusa.com/technical-articles/flutter-compressor-surge/
F150s have bigger turbos, can handle more psi efficiently than the SHOs.
2013, right? The wastegates are electronically controlled, don't know how different it is from previous years in actual operation. Here's a TurboSmart (mechanical) replacement unit with installation instructions:
http://www.stage3motorsports.com/TS-0215-1367-2013-2014-F150-EcoBoost-TurboSmart-SP-Supersonic-BOV.html
http://www.stage3motorsports.com/assets/images/Turbosmart/Install%20Instructions/TS-0215-1367%202013-2014%20F150%20EcoBoost%20TurboSmart%20SP%20Supersonic%20BOV%20Instructions.pdf
Tech + marketing blather:
http://www.turbosmartusa.com/technical-articles/flutter-compressor-surge/
F150s have bigger turbos, can handle more psi efficiently than the SHOs.
255 is 37.9 psi... Unless I missed something in the conversation. It jumps to that then slowly comes down while I'm still accelerating. Also my truck is a 2012 and the wastegate actuators seem to be controlled my manifold pressure. Is it possible that the springs inside the actuators are to week to hold that kind of boost and it's making them chatter?
I run the Afe intercooler and a Rx catch can and I've cleaned all my intake track sensor the piping and inter cooler are clean. I'm leaning toward the turbo smart wastegate actuators as my next upgrade.
I run the Afe intercooler and a Rx catch can and I've cleaned all my intake track sensor the piping and inter cooler are clean. I'm leaning toward the turbo smart wastegate actuators as my next upgrade.
ajpturbo said:255kpa is 22.29 psi love it
It's possible, but we'd need to know the specs on the OEM actuator to be sure. TurboSmart promises much better/more even control than OEM, so it may resolve the issue for you.rondeau13 said:Is it possible that the springs inside the actuators are to week to hold that kind of boost and it's making them chatter?
Do you feel any unevenness in the power delivery when the "flutter" happens? A wastegate issue is usually immediately noticeable.
zzfab / rondeau13-- did you watch this video yet? does it sound the same as this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrhBu5XtafU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrhBu5XtafU
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