What could be the reason for my fuel system to be far more deficient then most?

[SHOdded]

BTW, you are running stock intake with stock air filter?

 

[ElvenSho]

BTW, you are running stock intake with stock air filter?

Yup stock paper filter with stock intake system.

 

[SHOdded]

Are you hearing any clicks/rattles on startup or that persist afterwards?  I am not familiar with the GDI spark advance behavior between the 2 banks, but I see lots of places where a difference of > 1 degree is noted, sometimes several degrees, but mostly for very brief periods.  So at this point, I am thinking timing issue involvement, whether it be a VCT solenoid or cam phaser.  Or it could be a simple result of different airflow feeding the 2 banks, still looking at that possibility.

 

[ElvenSho]

Are you hearing any clicks/rattles on startup or that persist afterwards?  I am not familiar with the GDI spark advance behavior between the 2 banks, but I see lots of places where a difference of > 1 degree is noted, sometimes several degrees, but mostly for very brief periods.  So at this point, I am thinking timing issue involvement, whether it be a VCT solenoid or cam phaser.  Or it could be a simple result of different airflow feeding the 2 banks, still looking at that possibility.

I have not heard anything abnormal. I will try to listen to it today and if something comea up will let u know. One thing i hear under part throtle is marble like sounds from the engine. I did aome reading and it could be timing being pulled but i always heard this even when stock. I am going to switch to 93 octane from the 92 w/ethanol and see if that makes a difference. These engines are odd to me.

 

[91hybrid]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Are you hearing any clicks/rattles on startup or that persist afterwards?  I am not familiar with the GDI spark advance behavior between the 2 banks, but I see lots of places where a difference of > 1 degree is noted, sometimes several degrees, but mostly for very brief periods.  So at this point, I am thinking timing issue involvement, whether it be a VCT solenoid or cam phaser.  Or it could be a simple result of different airflow feeding the 2 banks, still looking at that possibility.

I have not heard anything abnormal. I will try to listen to it today and if something comea up will let u know. One thing i hear under part throtle is marble like sounds from the engine. I did aome reading and it could be timing being pulled but i always heard this even when stock. I am going to switch to 93 octane from the 92 w/ethanol and see if that makes a difference. These engines are odd to me.

I wouldn't do that....IMHO looking at your log you have a fuel pressure problem, not an octane problem. Ethanol has some interesting properties when injected directly. The ecoboost likes octane but it also demands fuel pressure and there is a balance. My fuel looks much better than yours and my system is stressed further with the 25% blend. Straight gas will cause your effective octane to drop and that coupled with low pressure is a recipe for disaster.

Some reading for you...

http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/catalog/reports/2000/08ja/08ja002/08ja002_full.pdf

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

Well that is very bad. How would I even go about figuring it out? I cant just go to dealership and tell them i have low fuel preasure? What do you think it could be? Where do i get started...

 

[BiGMaC]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

Well that is very bad. How would I even go about figuring it out? I cant just go to dealership and tell them i have low fuel preasure? What do you think it could be? Where do i get started...

Well... It may take a while... BUT I did just that (and gave the the DTCs:

I just flashed back to OEM and replaced my old 2BAR.... Got a CEL and found DTCs P0627, P0087, and U046B.... all related to PCM, fuel pressure sensors, fuel rail pressure, and HPFP..... The CEL was constant so I babied it to the dealer today... Motor died (just stopped running without smoke, odor or any other drama) in rush hour about 200 yes (and 2 left turns, from the service entrance... quite a push it traffic at 92 degrees....

So start cheap... access the OBD2, replace filters, etc.... there are worse things than not being able to tune hotter....

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

Well that is very bad. How would I even go about figuring it out? I cant just go to dealership and tell them i have low fuel preasure? What do you think it could be? Where do i get started...

Well... It may take a while... BUT I did just that (and gave the the DTCs:

I just flashed back to OEM and replaced my old 2BAR.... Got a CEL and found DTCs P0627, P0087, and U046B.... all related to PCM, fuel pressure sensors, fuel rail pressure, and HPFP..... The CEL was constant so I babied it to the dealer today... Motor died (just stopped running without smoke, odor or any other drama) in rush hour about 200 yes (and 2 left turns, from the service entrance... quite a push it traffic at 92 degrees....

So start cheap... access the OBD2, replace filters, etc.... there are worse things than not being able to tune hotter....

Would the obd2 read the code even if there is no cel? Xcal can read the codes so i might try that. No point to go back to stock if no codes.

 

[BiGMaC]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

Well that is very bad. How would I even go about figuring it out? I cant just go to dealership and tell them i have low fuel preasure? What do you think it could be? Where do i get started...

Well... It may take a while... BUT I did just that (and gave the the DTCs:

I just flashed back to OEM and replaced my old 2BAR.... Got a CEL and found DTCs P0627, P0087, and U046B.... all related to PCM, fuel pressure sensors, fuel rail pressure, and HPFP..... The CEL was constant so I babied it to the dealer today... Motor died (just stopped running without smoke, odor or any other drama) in rush hour about 200 yes (and 2 left turns, from the service entrance... quite a push it traffic at 92 degrees....

So start cheap... access the OBD2, replace filters, etc.... there are worse things than not being able to tune hotter....

Would the obd2 read the code even if there is no cel? Xcal can read the codes so i might try that. No point to go back to stock if no codes.

Depends on the reader... there are codes that the car stores which don't throw a CEL unless they worsen or happen too frequently... like the misfire codes do.  I will admit that I refreshed a couple of months ago and got a DTC... the The P0627 I think... but I remember looking it up and it was about the HPFP... I had no light. 

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

I would think Torrie would let me know if something bad is going on. Please take a look and let me know, thanks!

He did, something is causing you to be fuel challenged. But there is no way for him to tell you the cause with a data log. If there was something dangerous happening, I'm sure he would update your tune. It's not that something bad is happening, you just won't be able to turn up the power till you get it figured out.

Well that is very bad. How would I even go about figuring it out? I cant just go to dealership and tell them i have low fuel preasure? What do you think it could be? Where do i get started...

Well... It may take a while... BUT I did just that (and gave the the DTCs:

I just flashed back to OEM and replaced my old 2BAR.... Got a CEL and found DTCs P0627, P0087, and U046B.... all related to PCM, fuel pressure sensors, fuel rail pressure, and HPFP..... The CEL was constant so I babied it to the dealer today... Motor died (just stopped running without smoke, odor or any other drama) in rush hour about 200 yes (and 2 left turns, from the service entrance... quite a push it traffic at 92 degrees....

So start cheap... access the OBD2, replace filters, etc.... there are worse things than not being able to tune hotter....

Would the obd2 read the code even if there is no cel? Xcal can read the codes so i might try that. No point to go back to stock if no codes.

Depends on the reader... there are codes that the car stores which don't throw a CEL unless they worsen or happen too frequently... like the misfire codes do.  I will admit that I refreshed a couple of months ago and got a DTC... the The P0627 I think... but I remember looking it up and it was about the HPFP... I had no light.

So i have to go back to stock to even read the code correctly?

 

[SHOdded]

Check again for codes, like BigMac said.  Then draw up a list of observations that you CAN present to the dealer like:  uneven power, sound of "marbles" at part throttle, etc.  And slip in a suggestion that maybe the engine's not getting enough fuel.

You do not have to revert to stock to read the codes.  Codes will come up regardless.  The SCT device should be able to scan the OBD port and present them to you, if any.

 

[91hybrid]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

From you log, I don't see anything out of place other than the fact that for whatever reason, you are only able to flow enough fuel to support about 200kpa of boost.  If it goes over 200 your car is loosing HPFP rail pressure and you can see the car leaning out from 11.76 to 12.3.  I don't see any issues with knock so there may be room to turn your timing up.  However, the marble noise worries me as under part throttle low load, maybe inadequate fuel flow is causing it to have less than ideal fuel ratio which makes it more prevalent to detonate.

Of course this is all diagnosis via internet and there could be other "levers" at play causing the issue. 

I would be investigating the LPFP in your car.  Maybe the filter, may be the pump.  I have not heard of any folks having issues with the HPFP but maybe it has issues as well.  I am not sure how you could distinguish between each one.

Can you log the LPFP pressure too?  I have never tried, if so you can see if it is dropping off before the HPFP pressure drops off.

John

 

[ElvenSho]

Check again for codes, like BigMac said.  Then draw up a list of observations that you CAN present to the dealer like:  uneven power, sound of "marbles" at part throttle, etc.  And slip in a suggestion that maybe the engine's not getting enough fuel.

You do not have to revert to stock to read the codes.  Codes will come up regardless.  The SCT device should be able to scan the OBD port and present them to you, if any.

I think i will have to do this if the fuel filter change does not fix it. Torrie wanta me to try that first since its the cheapest to do. Anyone know where exactly the fuel filter is located?

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

From you log, I don't see anything out of place other than the fact that for whatever reason, you are only able to flow enough fuel to support about 200kpa of boost.  If it goes over 200 your car is loosing HPFP rail pressure and you can see the car leaning out from 11.76 to 12.3.  I don't see any issues with knock so there may be room to turn your timing up.  However, the marble noise worries me as under part throttle low load, maybe inadequate fuel flow is causing it to have less than ideal fuel ratio which makes it more prevalent to detonate.

Of course this is all diagnosis via internet and there could be other "levers" at play causing the issue. 

I would be investigating the LPFP in your car.  Maybe the filter, may be the pump.  I have not heard of any folks having issues with the HPFP but maybe it has issues as well.  I am not sure how you could distinguish between each one.

Can you log the LPFP pressure too?  I have never tried, if so you can see if it is dropping off before the HPFP pressure drops off.

John

200kpa=29psi of boost?? i will have to probably go to dealer but the worst part is putting the plugs to stock specs ughh

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

From you log, I don't see anything out of place other than the fact that for whatever reason, you are only able to flow enough fuel to support about 200kpa of boost.  If it goes over 200 your car is loosing HPFP rail pressure and you can see the car leaning out from 11.76 to 12.3.  I don't see any issues with knock so there may be room to turn your timing up.  However, the marble noise worries me as under part throttle low load, maybe inadequate fuel flow is causing it to have less than ideal fuel ratio which makes it more prevalent to detonate.

Of course this is all diagnosis via internet and there could be other "levers" at play causing the issue. 

I would be investigating the LPFP in your car.  Maybe the filter, may be the pump.  I have not heard of any folks having issues with the HPFP but maybe it has issues as well.  I am not sure how you could distinguish between each one.

Can you log the LPFP pressure too?  I have never tried, if so you can see if it is dropping off before the HPFP pressure drops off.

John

It looked like his max duty cycle on the lpfp was about 25% lower than mine

 

[ElvenSho]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

From you log, I don't see anything out of place other than the fact that for whatever reason, you are only able to flow enough fuel to support about 200kpa of boost.  If it goes over 200 your car is loosing HPFP rail pressure and you can see the car leaning out from 11.76 to 12.3.  I don't see any issues with knock so there may be room to turn your timing up.  However, the marble noise worries me as under part throttle low load, maybe inadequate fuel flow is causing it to have less than ideal fuel ratio which makes it more prevalent to detonate.

Of course this is all diagnosis via internet and there could be other "levers" at play causing the issue. 

I would be investigating the LPFP in your car.  Maybe the filter, may be the pump.  I have not heard of any folks having issues with the HPFP but maybe it has issues as well.  I am not sure how you could distinguish between each one.

Can you log the LPFP pressure too?  I have never tried, if so you can see if it is dropping off before the HPFP pressure drops off.

John

It looked like his max duty cycle on the lpfp was about 25% lower than mine

What does that mean in regular language? Could a fuel filter cause this? My guess is that the pump is giving out... how do i make it die faster since i only have about 3k miles of factory warranty lol

 

[BiGMaC]

Marbles sounding... sounds like detonation under part throttle load. I haven't looked at the log but if it detonates even with a stock tune, there would be some issues that need resolved.

I'll see what the log says...

John

From you log, I don't see anything out of place other than the fact that for whatever reason, you are only able to flow enough fuel to support about 200kpa of boost.  If it goes over 200 your car is loosing HPFP rail pressure and you can see the car leaning out from 11.76 to 12.3.  I don't see any issues with knock so there may be room to turn your timing up.  However, the marble noise worries me as under part throttle low load, maybe inadequate fuel flow is causing it to have less than ideal fuel ratio which makes it more prevalent to detonate.

Of course this is all diagnosis via internet and there could be other "levers" at play causing the issue. 

I would be investigating the LPFP in your car.  Maybe the filter, may be the pump.  I have not heard of any folks having issues with the HPFP but maybe it has issues as well.  I am not sure how you could distinguish between each one.

Can you log the LPFP pressure too?  I have never tried, if so you can see if it is dropping off before the HPFP pressure drops off.

John

It looked like his max duty cycle on the lpfp was about 25% lower than mine

It would seem that a 25% variance in max duty is out of spec...