e20 observation .. more HP but little TQ gains? why?

T

TopherSho

New member
So I have been looking at a few dyno sheets form the regulars,  Steel,AJP,FoMo,Lt8  etc and I see a odd pattern, (odd to me that is).

Going to E20, ups the HP by a really good amount, allows +6 or so more spark than me... but then barely nudges the TQ meter?

I find that super odd.  Especially when Steel and others then run the 1/4 mile several tenths faster on E20 vs pump which suggests to me its more than HP being gained.

Can someone offer some insight on that?



 
It's both...

I have a ton of torque, there is a graph around here somewhere.

Since our ECM calculates torque and outputs the data, I really don't see a need for dynos as they are subject to operator error and I see stock vehicles putting down numbers that just aren't possible so that tells me there are possibly large variations between the dynos themselves. Maybe I'm wrong and a tuner has seen more than 350 lb/ft commanded on the OEM calibration but I seriously doubt it and I suspect someone would have mentioned it.

Don't get me wrong, if you dyno on the same dyno to show changes from mods, that makes sense but as a comparison tool between different cars and dynos I think its a waste of money.

For me, timeslips and flywheel torque DMR is a better apples to apples comparison...If only we could get DMRs functioning for everyone.



 
FoMoCoSHO said:
It's both...

I have a ton of torque, there is a graph around here somewhere.

Since our ECM calculates torque and outputs the data, I really don't see a need for dynos as they are subject to operator error and I see stock vehicles putting down numbers that just aren't possible so that tells me there are possibly large variations between the dynos themselves. Maybe I'm wrong and a tuner has seen more than 350 lb/ft commanded on the OEM calibration but I seriously doubt it and I suspect someone would have mentioned it.

Don't get me wrong, if you dyno on the same dyno to show changes from mods, that makes sense but as a comparison tool between different cars and dynos I think its a waste of money.

For me, timeslips and flywheel torque DMR is a better apples to apples comparison...If only we could get DMRs functioning for everyone.
Click to expand...

I'll have to hook the laptop and SCT back up to the car and see whats available.. i cannot recall if my firmware was SCt supported for DMR or not.
 
I dont have a link on me right now, but on my car, the stock tune vs. E20 tune that I tested, Horsepower stayed the same, but torque was dramatically higher with my E20 tune.
 
derfdog15 said:
I dont have a link on me right now, but on my car, the stock tune vs. E20 tune that I tested, Horsepower stayed the same, but torque was dramatically higher with my E20 tune.
Click to expand...
My "stock" timing/boost on e20 fuel was 290hp/290tq at wheels. My e20 tune on 14psi was 332 and 386.. so I would say it's the tq that jumps not hp. And the range of where the power comes in is huge... my car made peak tq at like 3100rpm I think...peak numbers don't mean a thing if they don't come in until 5500rpm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
FoMoCoSHO said:
It's both...

I have a ton of torque, there is a graph around here somewhere.

Since our ECM calculates torque and outputs the data, I really don't see a need for dynos as they are subject to operator error and I see stock vehicles putting down numbers that just aren't possible so that tells me there are possibly large variations between the dynos themselves. Maybe I'm wrong and a tuner has seen more than 350 lb/ft commanded on the OEM calibration but I seriously doubt it and I suspect someone would have mentioned it.

Don't get me wrong, if you dyno on the same dyno to show changes from mods, that makes sense but as a comparison tool between different cars and dynos I think its a waste of money.

For me, timeslips and flywheel torque DMR is a better apples to apples comparison...If only we could get DMRs functioning for everyone.
Click to expand...

SCT has replied and asked what DMR I would like to enable!  woot!

can you tell me what the title of the DMR is you recorded your Nm reading from ?
 
TopherSho said:
FoMoCoSHO said:
It's both...

I have a ton of torque, there is a graph around here somewhere.

Since our ECM calculates torque and outputs the data, I really don't see a need for dynos as they are subject to operator error and I see stock vehicles putting down numbers that just aren't possible so that tells me there are possibly large variations between the dynos themselves. Maybe I'm wrong and a tuner has seen more than 350 lb/ft commanded on the OEM calibration but I seriously doubt it and I suspect someone would have mentioned it.

Don't get me wrong, if you dyno on the same dyno to show changes from mods, that makes sense but as a comparison tool between different cars and dynos I think its a waste of money.

For me, timeslips and flywheel torque DMR is a better apples to apples comparison...If only we could get DMRs functioning for everyone.
Click to expand...

SCT has replied and asked what DMR I would like to enable!  woot!

can you tell me what the title of the DMR is you recorded your Nm reading from ?
Click to expand...
I need to do the same!!! Cause I couldn't get mine to work either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
f8tlSHO said:
TopherSho said:
FoMoCoSHO said:
It's both...

I have a ton of torque, there is a graph around here somewhere.

Since our ECM calculates torque and outputs the data, I really don't see a need for dynos as they are subject to operator error and I see stock vehicles putting down numbers that just aren't possible so that tells me there are possibly large variations between the dynos themselves. Maybe I'm wrong and a tuner has seen more than 350 lb/ft commanded on the OEM calibration but I seriously doubt it and I suspect someone would have mentioned it.

Don't get me wrong, if you dyno on the same dyno to show changes from mods, that makes sense but as a comparison tool between different cars and dynos I think its a waste of money.

For me, timeslips and flywheel torque DMR is a better apples to apples comparison...If only we could get DMRs functioning for everyone.
Click to expand...

SCT has replied and asked what DMR I would like to enable!  woot!

can you tell me what the title of the DMR is you recorded your Nm reading from ?
Click to expand...
I need to do the same!!! Cause I couldn't get mine to work either


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

kevin czajkowski from SCT is who responded with DMR to add...
 
f8tlSHO said:
Is that specific to your vehicle? How is it added?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Based on the technical description of a DMR, and my understanding of DMA in computers,  it will most likely be individual to the firmware revision.  Once enabled on mine, anyone with a DMJKBLA strategy /  AU7A-14C204-GTC SWPN can verify all the pids\dmrs in livelink and have it available to log.

 
I am tracking 2 torque dmrs that I saw available in my strategy (khdk4).  Picture attached with names.  Sorry laptop screen not showing well..
e7b4dd4e62df292455b1a5cfa48c8804.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

EDIT: ENGINE BRAKE TORQUE  and ENGINE TORQUE FLYWHEEL
 
NP, I would like to know the difference between the two actually.  One obviously is flywheel, but what is the other one and how does it relate....?
 
TopherSho said:
lamrith said:
NP, I would like to know the difference between the two actually.  One obviously is flywheel, but what is the other one and how does it relate....?
Click to expand...

From this wordy jaunt ..  http://www2.egr.uh.edu/~mece2hv/Papers/4.pdf

Brake TQ = TQ at the Brakes/wheels.  So some loss is assumed and calculated.
Flywheel TQ = would be more of a estimation of a Engine Dyno.
Click to expand...
Interesting.  I always heard "Brake HP" used reference to Engine dyno's and figured that brake Tq was similar and had to do with power at the crankshaft.  But then the other being Flywheel makes me wonder.
I have Engine Brake Tq displayed on my SCTx4(using as a live display until I get OBD2MX and Torque going)  I have seen it showing 600 when I am driving with "youthful exuberance".  The numbers I see would agree that it is more crank based as there is no way I am throwing 600 to wheels...  Much as I might dream/want that to be true..

I will reconfig the display and have both showing for the drive home and do some comparisons and let you all know later tonight.
 
lamrith said:
TopherSho said:
lamrith said:
NP, I would like to know the difference between the two actually.  One obviously is flywheel, but what is the other one and how does it relate....?
Click to expand...

From this wordy jaunt ..  http://www2.egr.uh.edu/~mece2hv/Papers/4.pdf

Brake TQ = TQ at the Brakes/wheels.  So some loss is assumed and calculated.
Flywheel TQ = would be more of a estimation of a Engine Dyno.
Click to expand...
Interesting.  I always heard "Brake HP" used reference to Engine dyno's and figured that brake Tq was similar and had to do with power at the crankshaft.  But then the other being Flywheel makes me wonder.
I have Engine Brake Tq displayed on my SCTx4(using as a live display until I get OBD2MX and Torque going)  I have seen it showing 600 when I am driving with "youthful exuberance".  The numbers I see would agree that it is more crank based as there is no way I am throwing 600 to wheels...  Much as I might dream/want that to be true..

I will reconfig the display and have both showing for the drive home and do some comparisons and let you all know later tonight.
Click to expand...

Cool,  i was given a SCT support ticket number so I am hopeful they will be able to open it up on my handheld.  I will let you know :) and we can compare.

 
TopherSho said:
@Lamrith was that in Nm for your 600 reading ?  That would be 442ftlb converted if it was ...
Click to expand...
I do not recall it listing a unit of measure at all.  but I will check tonight.
 
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