How to fix weird Knock Retard

wasinger3000 said:
SHOnUup said:
FoMoCoSHO said:
SHOnUup said:
ajpturbo said:
SHOnUup said:
wasinger3000 said:
So what's the consensus on knock in relation to fuel economy. Is it more economical to run a higher octane to prevent knock which will reduce the amount of fuel sprayed in compensation of the knock. Or is it not worth the price increase over 87? I'm taking the f150 on a trip over 4k miles and it's not tuned so no need for 91.
I've read that using 93 gets better mileage and ends up being same money spent as using 87...but your vehicle would appreciate the higher octane, and is better for it.

Rich

Then u read a bad article...a fuels octane rating is its ability to resist preignition..common myth that higher octane yields better mpg and burns hotter....running higher octane fuel than what the vehicle was tuned for will only increase operating cost...the car doesn't appreciate anything....commanded lambda will remain the same no matter the fuel being used...
I've only watched about a 100 guys report on better mileage in their F150 ecoboost by moving up to premium...they all must be lying?

Rich
Well, what are their testing methods? Just like the track, there are too many variables to know.

If there was any advantage to MPG with premium, you can bet Ford would lock it down to premium to get those extra CAFE points.....manufacturers are seriously under the gun with future fuel economy requirements....
From a TON of guys on ecoboosted page...doubt it was very scientific. But many mentioned the change in mileage on the same daily commute they always take. Could be them easing off the throttle a bit to reinforce the idea, but if was a wave of guys.

Rich
I'll try 500 miles of 91 then 87 and see where it stands.
Awesome, I know you'll put more of a scientific twist on it.

Rich

 
I can see getting a bit more economy with premium fuel like 91 over 87. I personally recorded a LOR of -0.03 when our explorer. The truck was pulling lots of timing to account for the crappy 87. Less power in theory would require more pedal to climb a given grade and maintain a given speed for example. Also towing a load. Will it run on 87 sure it will. To say the car/truck will not take advantage of the higher octane is nonsense. With how FMC controls their engines today it will. Is it the same as an after market tune um no lol. Keep in mind that our truck is a non EB 3.5.


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SHOnUup said:
wasinger3000 said:
SHOnUup said:
FoMoCoSHO said:
SHOnUup said:
ajpturbo said:
SHOnUup said:
wasinger3000 said:
So what's the consensus on knock in relation to fuel economy. Is it more economical to run a higher octane to prevent knock which will reduce the amount of fuel sprayed in compensation of the knock. Or is it not worth the price increase over 87? I'm taking the f150 on a trip over 4k miles and it's not tuned so no need for 91.
I've read that using 93 gets better mileage and ends up being same money spent as using 87...but your vehicle would appreciate the higher octane, and is better for it.

Rich

Then u read a bad article...a fuels octane rating is its ability to resist preignition..common myth that higher octane yields better mpg and burns hotter....running higher octane fuel than what the vehicle was tuned for will only increase operating cost...the car doesn't appreciate anything....commanded lambda will remain the same no matter the fuel being used...
I've only watched about a 100 guys report on better mileage in their F150 ecoboost by moving up to premium...they all must be lying?

Rich
Well, what are their testing methods? Just like the track, there are too many variables to know.

If there was any advantage to MPG with premium, you can bet Ford would lock it down to premium to get those extra CAFE points.....manufacturers are seriously under the gun with future fuel economy requirements....
From a TON of guys on ecoboosted page...doubt it was very scientific. But many mentioned the change in mileage on the same daily commute they always take. Could be them easing off the throttle a bit to reinforce the idea, but if was a wave of guys.

Rich
I'll try 500 miles of 91 then 87 and see where it stands.
Awesome, I know you'll put more of a scientific twist on it.

Rich
I'll do my best. Problem is this is all a one way kinda trip so not one mile will be the same as the last. That and the truck is still "breaking in". It's finally getting 18 mpg instead of the 14 when it was brand new.
 
I must agree that there is to many variables to take into consideration,because every SHO,truck have slightly different aspects in performance,economy, and at the end of the day it all comes down to the month and year your vehicle was manfactured. Z
 
I can definitively say that with my Edge, at one particular Exxon station, using the same routes, I saw differences in mpg of up to 1.5, between 87 and 93.  That was with worn spark plugs, mind you.  With new plugs in place, it doesn't hardly vary.
 
SHOdded said:
I can definitively say that with my Edge, at one particular Exxon station, using the same routes, I saw differences in mpg of up to 1.5, between 87 and 93.  That was with worn spark plugs, mind you.  With new plugs in place, it doesn't hardly vary.
I am not looking forward to changing the plugs on my Explorer...


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I did see that vid, having to take off the intake to change the plugs is a little nuts. But oh well, I will tackle it some day lol


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Ok, today the car was still showing intermittent signs of hesitation after last night's brief drive, so I decided to do the knock sensor wire wrap followed by the zip tie secure and black tape.

Container of assorted color zip ties + wire wrap cost $14 at Advance.

The pics I took after I finished:

1) a top down shot of the engine compartment showing where this little trouble maker is located
2) blue wire loom sleeve I placed over the knock sensor wire (about 5" long split tube, gradually fed it down over wire)
3) zip tied the new blue piece to an adjacent factory ribbed wire loom (this will prevent the new blue plastic loom from moving)
4) zip tied the area above the sensor plug to other adjacent lines (keep the whole thing stable)
5) black taped the top portion
6) black taped the bottom portion (I tightened that loose end after I took the pic)

I spent 45-60 min on it as it's a tough place to work (black taping was a huge pain), plus I removed the air box and it's first section of tubing to better see things.

Thanks again to bpd1151 and ShoBoat for their discovery and subsequent cures of the problem!

Afterwards, I went on a short drive to the store and can say it certainly feels like the problem is gone. I'll be going a a longer drive tonight, will report back ...
 
ZSHO said:
Thats a great way to avoid the dealership,also would suggest adding a 1/4 hose clamp on the pressure hose before it pops off and causes any issues. Z    http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4863.0;attach=7624;image

I'm sorry, that pic was extremely small. Where is this hose, and what does it do?

Thanks

ShoBoat said:
You are very welcome, hopefully it stays that way for you.

BiGMaC said:
Sounds good!  Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Well, I just got back from an extended drive. The wrapping/stabilizing of that wire did a lot!

Temps were ~82 deg and I'd say prior to the wrapping, +50% full throttle runs were iffy (flat, lacking power). Now, I'd say it's down to ~20%. I experienced levels of acceleration I do not think I've felt in the 3 months since I've owned the car. Tires squealing loudly on turns, real "put you back in your seat" acceleration on downshifts. A definite improvement!

I wish I had the instrument you guys use to measure knock as proof of my improvement, what is it?

Thanks Again All :)
 
ZSHO said:
I do apologize for that,the issue is the wategate hoses have a tendency to pop off because Ford never secured all the hoses,heres a thread regarding the issue of over boost conditions followed by a great video from 14SHOCAR.  Z  http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,4863.0.html

Thanks a bunch. Are these hoses popping off on cars with a tune/higher boost, or is it happening with stock cars as well?

SHOdded said:
Android device + Torque Pro + Custom PID for knock retard (KR) = how to track knock performance

No Android Device = Me Cr@p Out Of Luck

lol

P.S. I haven't cleared my car of KR's, so it might take a while before it "resets" itself. Right?
 
I don't think Forscan (Windows) or Forscan Lite (iPad/iPhone etc) has a Knock Retard function either, maybe FoMoCoSHO or ecoboostsho can confirm.
 
You can definitely measure knock with Forscan...haven't tried the lite version yet but I would be surprised if it isn't there...
 
SHOdded said:
I don't think Forscan (Windows) or Forscan Lite (iPad/iPhone etc) has a Knock Retard function either, maybe FoMoCoSHO or ecoboostsho can confirm.

Forscan lite for IOS and Android can monitor KR.


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