Lowering intake temps.. ?

[TopherSho]

Other than dubious cold air mods, and pulling engine bay weather striping does anyone have any ideas on dropping engine bay temps?

And old school trick was to cut vent slats out of the inner wheel wheel, using tire rotation to pull air out and allowing more air to flow lower in the engine bay.

But beyond that I cannot think of how to drop IAT temps by 20f ..

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Methanol

 

[TopherSho]

Is the 1st hit free?

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

Got E85?

 

[ajpturbo]

There's more to it than lowering iat...the problem is iat2(manifold air temp)...so even if you were ingesting super cold air, the tiny turbos trying to create 15 psi and 40 pounds per minute of air heats the intake air back up and the intercooler is simply not efficient enough to cool it back down

 

[TopherSho]

Got E85?

I have definitely considered before even buy the car the thought of going full e85 at some point.  maybe when there is not much warranty left.

it will be spendy though,  so I may do it in a different rig that is more complaint to the conversion.

For this one we'd need a a new pump, injector, probably fuel lines..rails ?? For the cost of the car when bought it becomes a lesser value ..  by the time my warranty is down to a year second gen SHO's will be super cheap and they come with a number of e85 compliant parts right off the bat. 

dunno  for 650ish whp there are easier options though.  time and my wife will have to dictate

 

[92BlackGT]

Got E85?

I have definitely considered before even buy the car the thought of going full e85 at some point.  maybe when there is not much warranty left.

it will be spendy though,  so I may do it in a different rig that is more complaint to the conversion.

For this one we'd need a a new pump, injector, probably fuel lines..rails ?? For the cost of the car when bought it becomes a lesser value ..  by the time my warranty is down to a year second gen SHO's will be super cheap and they come with a number of e85 compliant parts right off the bat. 

dunno  for 650ish whp there are easier options though.  time and my wife will have to dictate

no need to run full E85, do a mix up to E30 on the stock fuel system and still enjoy some benefits. I can get 94 octane (plus cooling effects of the extra E) out of my E20 mix (E0 91 and E85). I ran my 12.91 with a DA of 2500 or 2700... somewhere way up high (track elevation is just under 1200 ft)

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Got E85?

I have definitely considered before even buy the car the thought of going full e85 at some point.  maybe when there is not much warranty left.

it will be spendy though,  so I may do it in a different rig that is more complaint to the conversion.

For this one we'd need a a new pump, injector, probably fuel lines..rails ?? For the cost of the car when bought it becomes a lesser value ..  by the time my warranty is down to a year second gen SHO's will be super cheap and they come with a number of e85 compliant parts right off the bat. 

dunno  for 650ish whp there are easier options though.  time and my wife will have to dictate

Actually.... all that is required to run full E85 is the new extreme duty fuel pump that is going to be released by LMS and Extreme-DI... along with the proper tune....

However, until someone comes out with a kit to beef up the transmission/ptu/rdu setup then 650awd hp at the wheels is gonna be very risky.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I'm at E45 now with a preliminary log showing strong rail pressure.....

Stay tuned....

 

[SHOdded]

EEKS!

 

[TopherSho]

Got E85?

I have definitely considered before even buy the car the thought of going full e85 at some point.  maybe when there is not much warranty left.

it will be spendy though,  so I may do it in a different rig that is more complaint to the conversion.

For this one we'd need a a new pump, injector, probably fuel lines..rails ?? For the cost of the car when bought it becomes a lesser value ..  by the time my warranty is down to a year second gen SHO's will be super cheap and they come with a number of e85 compliant parts right off the bat. 

dunno  for 650ish whp there are easier options though.  time and my wife will have to dictate

no need to run full E85, do a mix up to E30 on the stock fuel system and still enjoy some benefits. I can get 94 octane (plus cooling effects of the extra E) out of my E20 mix (E0 91 and E85). I ran my 12.91 with a DA of 2500 or 2700... somewhere way up high (track elevation is just under 1200 ft)

If I could pump my own gas i'd be all over a E15,e20,e25 tune. In a heartbeat.. 

My pump and rails seem pretty good.  BUT I would have to have the Gas jockey understand what the heck I was saying.  as it is I have to eagle eye the dam attendants to make sure they put in 92 as it is.  it is too much hassle ..

 

[TopherSho]

I'm at E45 now with a preliminary log showing strong rail pressure.....

Stay tuned....

Holy crap..

 

[lamrith]

I can see now how IAT2 can be an issue.  Cold this am, <50*, but after a 20min easy drive to work mine was 105* and while I sat there letting the turbos cool a bit before shutdown(habit from old days), I watched the IAT2 climb 2-3* per minute just at idle..

I did notice the temps drop when the car is moving, but staging in staging lines could make for a really hot IAT temp before you get to the line to start.  Cooler temps from moving air not hit until you were 1/4 way down track likely and by then you got boost heat coming in hard anyway so too little to late...

Got me wondering...  Maybe some sort of supplemental small fan to mount on the Intercooler up front that could even be set to run when the car is off?  No air going thru it at that point, but cooler get the metal intercooler, the better and worst case forcing air thru at idle keeping it from just heat soaking?

 

[TopherSho]

I can see now how IAT2 can be an issue.  Cold this am, <50*, but after a 20min easy drive to work mine was 105* and while I sat there letting the turbos cool a bit before shutdown(habit from old days), I watched the IAT2 climb 2-3* per minute just at idle..

I did notice the temps drop when the car is moving, but staging in staging lines could make for a really hot IAT temp before you get to the line to start.  Cooler temps from moving air not hit until you were 1/4 way down track likely and by then you got boost heat coming in hard anyway so too little to late...

Got me wondering...  Maybe some sort of supplemental small fan to mount on the Intercooler up front that could even be set to run when the car is off?  No air going thru it at that point, but cooler get the metal intercooler, the better and worst case forcing air thru at idle keeping it from just heat soaking?

Since this is a manifold issue,  I assume this is good old heat soak from the block to the material of the manifold itself.  Were we NA longitudinal blocks we'd be icing between runs to compensate.  But since we have all the crap on top we cant ice (and i would not),  I gave the fan a thought.. it would help with actual condenser .. but i'm not sure of the payoff, VS the time to tear it all apart to install it.  And for the perfectionist in me,  unless I could wire it to my dash perfectly I probably would not do it.

Now if there is a kit (that i have not looked for) that would allow me to share the AMPS for the AirCon and power a set of fans on the condenser .. without risk to the wiring .. maybe. 

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

 

[TopherSho]

I can see now how IAT2 can be an issue.  Cold this am, <50*, but after a 20min easy drive to work mine was 105* and while I sat there letting the turbos cool a bit before shutdown(habit from old days), I watched the IAT2 climb 2-3* per minute just at idle..

I did notice the temps drop when the car is moving, but staging in staging lines could make for a really hot IAT temp before you get to the line to start.  Cooler temps from moving air not hit until you were 1/4 way down track likely and by then you got boost heat coming in hard anyway so too little to late...

Got me wondering...  Maybe some sort of supplemental small fan to mount on the Intercooler up front that could even be set to run when the car is off?  No air going thru it at that point, but cooler get the metal intercooler, the better and worst case forcing air thru at idle keeping it from just heat soaking?

Since this is a manifold issue,  I assume this is good old heat soak from the block to the material of the manifold itself.  Were we NA longitudinal blocks we'd be icing between runs to compensate.  But since we have all the crap on top we cant ice (and i would not),  I gave the fan a thought.. it would help with actual condenser .. but i'm not sure of the payoff, VS the time to tear it all apart to install it.  And for the perfectionist in me,  unless I could wire it to my dash perfectly I probably would not do it.

Now if there is a kit (that i have not looked for) that would allow me to share the AMPS for the AirCon and power a set of fans on the condenser .. without risk to the wiring .. maybe. 

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator. 

 

[lamrith]

Now if there is a kit (that i have not looked for) that would allow me to share the AMPS for the AirCon and power a set of fans on the condenser .. without risk to the wiring .. maybe. 

I am not sure what you mean by AMPS, do you mean literal amperage?  Pulling off an existing circuit is great, but I think a dedicated harness/switch would be best for what we are talking about.  Maybe splice it into an AccysOn 12v+/grnd line someplace.  I do not know of any kit for extra fan at all at this point.  Perfect world I would think a M-F connector matching some existing connector in the vehicle so it is plug and play, no cut, splice etc to harness.

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

However by then you are already heat soaked from top to bottom, plus the turbos are generating max heat as well.  That is a tough row to hoe for the IC, starting hot, and adding heat..  I think (usually dangerous) if we can devise a way to keep the setup from reaching those higher temps in the 1st place when idling, staging etc, then we are going to see a net benefit or overall cooler temps at all times.  Instead of starting the pass @130*AIT2, start it at 100-110*...  Then it can come down as you start rolling and climb thru the pass.  Your #1 run you started @ 129.2*, then there was a 9* temp drop until 53mph, then it climbed out again to finish @ 134.6 so a 14.4* climb from min temp.  It comes down to managing BTU output of the turbos vs the IC's max temp drop.  If we can get a fan setup that gives it airflow similar to say 15-20mph while the car is sitting still, we are a huge step forward in the game.  So lets look at starting at 110*, then drop to 101* and then climb out the 14.4* you are at 115.4* finishing the run, which is a lower than the min temp of the 1st run you did...  You might lose timing due to heat late in the pass, but have plenty to play with early on to get that big boat moving. 

Since this is a manifold issue,  I assume this is good old heat soak from the block to the material of the manifold itself.  Were we NA longitudinal blocks we'd be icing between runs to compensate.  But since we have all the crap on top we cant ice (and i would not)..

Mad scientist here, and this is well beyond my ability to create or develop, but maybe someone with the resources will pickup the idea..?  What about leveraging the AC system, not for electrical power but for the direct cooling?  I am thinking a manifold built with a jacket in it and then the AC lines were routed thru that jacket?  As mentioned the metal in the intake itself gets heat soaked and adds heat, so correct that and you make a huge advance in lowering temps.  It would almost act like an IC itself.  So sitting in staging lines you actually run the AC system, chilling the intake itself.  Then as you pull in for your run you shut it down just like normally would check and do.  This would likely be an expensive upgrade item doing it that way, but once done there is no filling or topping off needed like Meth, it just works...

 

[SHOdded]

This is why it is recommended  to remove the weatherstrip at the firewall to provide the heat an escape route.  Also popping the hood once you are done with the run and are cruising back to staging.  You can choose to wire the fans for manual control as well.  There is a howto on it.

 

[lamrith]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

 

[TopherSho]

A liquid cooled manifold would be good,  along with better gaskets that are thermal barriers.  My old g35 was prone to heat soak so there was thermal insulators you placed in between the block and the intake.  dropped 10f under WoT.

 

[TopherSho]

But (in my head) once your moving more than 30mph i imagine that natural air coming in would be enough to cool the charge better than CFM limited fans..  (someone correct me otherwise)

What i am curious about is, is there a better way to push air to the condenser .. without compromising airflow to the radiator.

You are not wrong, car moving makes a big difference in the temp.  Just air moving when the car is under light/no load is a significant drop in temps.  But based on your logs the IC runs out of steam by 50mph during WOT due to the heat generated by the turbos, even though the airflow is obviously increasing as mph increases.  But it starts helping right off the line, does not take much air movement to show results, at least until we mash the pedal to the firewall.  Mine dropped quite a bit once moving, even driving around.  That is why I am thinking a IC mounted fan to run when sitting could net a significant improvement.

Does anyone have a picture of the IC setup with the bumper off to get an idea of layout, better yet a physical size as well?  On other cars guys just put bigger IC's in, not sure if that is possible here?  If it was then that is an obvious and clean upgrade.  Seeing pictures and reading threads now about how tight the space is and how big our IC already is..

I'ts a big heat sandwich   it is in between the AC coils and radiator.  this explains a bit.