New TSB for 3.5 GDI Sartup Rattle 15-0131

B

BiGMaC

New member
Found this video this morning from Ford Tech Makuloco. It officially covers the F150 through 5/2015 manufacture. ford is touting the new fix as a permanent cure. It not only involves the replacement of the stretched timing chain, but also involves replacement of both the intake and exhaust cam phasers. Most important it does not require anything to be present except the startup rattle.... Not a DTC, timing problems, or anything else required to get it done other than the rattle. I suspect that the same will be forthcoming for the transverse 3.5 GDI soon if your dealer won't honor it now. Again currently it is for the F150. Here's the link to the video:
http://youtu.be/OFhvUFtnBCk
 
Just FYI guys, we only have one cam phaser on each head, the F150 platform has two cam phasers.  I think this added strain is was is causing extra wear on things.  I really haven't heard much startup rattle in the transverse platform.
 
bamsho said:
Just FYI guys, we only have one cam phaser on each head, the F150 platform has two cam phasers.  I think this added strain is was is causing extra wear on things.  I really haven't heard much startup rattle in the transverse platform.
Click to expand...
I have the startup rattle if I let the car sit for more than a day.
 
Pretty sure painter pat and a few other flex owners and a few SHO on here have it at one time  or another . It's not nearly as bad as the f150 I've heard online, but it's definitely there. I'll try to get a sound clip tomorrow.
 
Agree with Glock,quite a few have exhibited these symptoms one time or another and mostly happens when the vehicle has not been driven for a few days or more,from my experience find it important to frequently change the oil and sticking to the same grade,weight so it does not cause delay on the cam phasers which could lead also to loss of power..  Z
 
I think an argument could be made that it is part of emissions equipment (Variable Camshaft Timing Kit), so should be under the 7/70 (or longer in CA) coverage.  If you have had it in for service for this issue before, the case is even stronger.
 
I remember reading a thread a couple years ago about startup rattle and oil filters. It seemed that certain brands would cause more startup rattle but I can't find the thread now.
 
Thinking of this thread perhaps?
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,696
or this one started by painterpatt :)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,872

Usually, if it is oil filter related, installing an OEM Motorcraft FL500s filter helps minimize/stop the "brief rattle at startup" symptom.  glock has a Fram Ultra Guard that works for his 2010 SHO.  If you are using 5w20 spec, see if 5w30 makes any difference.  One change at a time though, so you know whether it is the filter or the oil that made the difference.

Keeping those cam phasers lubricated is a challenge due to the tiny oil passages built into them.  If they pick up ANY gunk, that spells trouble.  You COULD try running an engine cleaner like AutoRX through the oil see if it helps the rattle subside any, but IDK.
 
There are at least two types of cam phasers on the market:
Oil Pressure Actuated (OPA)
Cam Torque Actuated (CTA)

Not sure which one the EB's use.

CTA phasers are independent of oil pressure for their function, described as such by Car and Driver:

"Most modern variable valve-timing (VVT) systems use a cam phaser that rotates the position of each cam­shaft relative to the timing chain. Think of making a record turntable go faster or slower by spinning it with your hands. The cam phaser has two basic com­ponents: an outer sprocket connected to the timing chain and an inner rotor (connected to the camshaft) that varies the valve timing by adjusting the rotation angle of the cam.

This inner rotor consists of a set of lobes, and oil fills the space between the outer housing and the lobes. Left alone, the rotor will simply spin at the same rate as the outer housing. If you add oil to one side of the lobe and remove it from the other, the rotor moves, and—voilà!—there’s your variable valve timing.

The majority of these VVT systems use oil pressure to push the rotor back and forth, but BorgWarner thinks its cam-torque-actuated (CTA) system marks an important step forward. Oil-pressure-actuated (OPA) systems require an upsize oil pump to pro­duce the extra pressure that’s required to work the cam phasers, which saps some of the fuel-economy gains of VVT. With a mechanical oil pump, OPA systems don’t work well at low engine speeds because the pump doesn’t build pressure and volume until the revs get higher.

The CTA system avoids those pitfalls by using Newton’s Third Law of Motion—for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction—to move the oil in the cam phas­ers. When a cam lobe pushes a valve open, the valve spring resists that force and pushes back. Similarly, when the valve spring pushes a valve closed, it also pushes on the cam lobe in the opposite direction from the valve opening. When multiplied over an entire camshaft, there is enough energy from these back-and-forth forces to make cam phasing work. 
upf-techvalvetiming-2-photo-359889-s-cd-gallery-1-photo-464147-s-original.jpg

Another trick to BorgWarner’s system is the way it moves oil. A center spool valve, controlled by a solenoid inside the cam-phasing rotor, directs the flow. With the valve open in one direction, oil flows into only one side of the oil pockets and can’t leave. By sliding the valve back and forth, the system can mete out the precise amount of oil flow on either side of the rotor lobes.

The key advantages of the CTA system are that it responds quickly even at idle and can operate using a standard engine’s oil pump. But there are downsides. As engine speeds increase, the CTA system becomes less effective. This happens because the valve events occur more frequently, reduc­ing the time available to move the oil. Con­versely, OPA systems work better as oil pres­sure increases and are better at high rpm. So there’s not much of a peak power gain from a CTA system; it improves performance and efficiency in other areas of the rev range. Also, CTA cam phasing is at the mercy of the natural oscillations of those forces on the camshaft. Valve openings and closings in an inline-six are spaced too closely for the sys­tem to work well. But a V-6 (or inline-three) is perfectly suited because there isn’t as much overlap between each valve event. The system also works on V-8 engines.

CTA variable valve timing debuted on Ford’s 3.0-liter Duratec V-6, beginning with the 2009 Escape and the 2010 Fusion. The 3.7-liter V-6 in the Mustang uses BorgWar­ner’s system, too, as do the 2011 Edge and Lincoln MKX. You can also find it on the Mustang’s 5.0-liter V-8 as well as the V-8 engines used in Jaguar and Land Rover vehi­cles. These engines’ efficiencies show the vir­tues of the CTA system."

Borg Warner's video on YT (more available by searching):
! No longer available
FORD CTA Torque Valve Timing video:
! No longer available
 
I've had the startup rattle/knock for a few years now on my 2010. It's worse first thing in the morning, or after a day or two. Sometimes worse than others.
I just switched to Amsoil hoping it might help, but, nope, no change. Always used the Motorcraft filter.


Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk

 
SHOdded said:
Thinking of this thread perhaps?
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,696
or this one started by painterpatt :)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,872

Usually, if it is oil filter related, installing an OEM Motorcraft FL500s filter helps minimize/stop the "brief rattle at startup" symptom.  glock has a Fram Ultra Guard that works for his 2010 SHO.  If you are using 5w20 spec, see if 5w30 makes any difference.  One change at a time though, so you know whether it is the filter or the oil that made the difference.

Keeping those cam phasers lubricated is a challenge due to the tiny oil passages built into them.  If they pick up ANY gunk, that spells trouble.  You COULD try running an engine cleaner like AutoRX through the oil see if it helps the rattle subside any, but IDK.
Click to expand...

Did a little more searching, here's the one i remember.  :)
http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.com/index.php/topic,2178.msg30871.html#msg30871
 
The fram filter was only a temporary fix.  If did come back with more frequency.
I did switch back to a Motorcraft filter and the rattle remains.
 
Sounds like more SHO's/Flex's headed to the dealer for timing chain rattle issues soon!  Anybody in the X Sport community have these issues?
 
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