PP vs. Non PP?

[ajpturbo]

Glad I can help ...it feels good knowing all the good I do for the new guys

 

[BMC10SEC50]

That's the difference from 3.16 to 2.77.

My brother-in-law has a 2014 PP and I own a 2013 Non-PP. We both have a LMS 93 oct tune and every-time we race from a dig, he's roughly 3/4 to 1 car length ahead of me each time.

 

[14 TUX BL]

Some good reading guys ... Every time I get on I learn more and more we rookies are grateful and appreciate all the time and effort some of you vets spend on here.

I'm a rookie to SHO's, but I've been drag racing on & off since 1977 (all Mustangs, 9 of them!).

That's the difference from 3.16 to 2.77.

Shodded put up numbers I thought deserved more examination:

2.77/3.16 final drive
6500 rpm redline
245/45/20 tires

    1st  44/39 mph 
    2nd  69/61 mph
    3rd  108/95 mph
    4th  141/124 mph
    5th  200/175 mph
    6th  269/236 mph

For stock SHO 1/4 mile times (~102 mph), the 2.77 gear needs three shifts whereas the 3.16 needs four.

Maybe that's why the quickest automotive test of a stock PP is the same as the best non PP (13.7 sec).

 

[ajpturbo]

No that's not the reason...the shifts of modern automatics happen really fast and they are actually accelerating through the shift...there is not a period of throttle lift .

Uncontrolled variables will manifest themselves as inconsistent track times.

You are suggesting that the mechanical advantage of more aggressive final drive gearing is negated by the action of the transmission which is false.....or you are correct and ford is stupid and dropped the ball...not saying that ford hasn't screwed up but this would be a huge oversight....many manufactures use this feature to increase performance...its just simple physics

 

[ajpturbo]

Also I know what you meant to say but a PP only needs 3 shifts not 4 for the 1/4 mile. You meant 4th gear but you only need 3 shifts to get there.

And the PP's maybe be geared perfectly for 1/4 mile when tuned with 3 bar since you are just about at redline in 4th gear. You are using the entire gear.

I think the the NON PP guys with 2.77 FD when tuned need to just barely shift into 4th which is shifting for basically nothing and you aren't using the next gear at all whereas the PP is using the entire gear.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

I think the the NON PP guys with 2.77 FD when tuned need to just barely shift into 4th which is shifting for basically nothing and you aren't using the next gear at all whereas the PP is using the entire gear.

That was my experience in the non-PP car.

 

[14 TUX BL]

... the shifts of modern automatics happen really fast

We don't live in a mechanical/hydraulic vacuum, an extra shift is an extra shift.

No way to get around that.

You are suggesting that the mechanical advantage of more aggressive final drive gearing is negated by the action of the transmission ...

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Also I know what you meant to say but a PP only needs 3 shifts not 4 for the 1/4 mile. You meant 4th gear but you only need 3 shifts to get there.

Correct.

And the PP's maybe be geared perfectly for 1/4 mile when tuned ...

I think the the NON PP guys with 2.77 FD when tuned ...

My decades of modding/drag racing cars are in the past. My SHO will not be modded in any conceivable way, which is the reason why I used Shodded's bone stock 2.77 vs. *3.19 gears/speed chart.

*CORRECTION: 3.16, as it was pointed out by the unfunny who had nothing else better to say (heh heh)

 

[SHOnUup]

How much is the 1" difference in wheel setup going to change the gearing? .2?

Rich

 

[ZSHO]

... the shifts of modern automatics happen really fast

We don't live in a mechanical/hydraulic vacuum, an extra shift is an extra shift.

No way to get around that.

You are suggesting that the mechanical advantage of more aggressive final drive gearing is negated by the action of the transmission ...

That's exactly what I'm saying. 

Also I know what you meant to say but a PP only needs 3 shifts not 4 for the 1/4 mile. You meant 4th gear but you only need 3 shifts to get there.

Correct.

And the PP's maybe be geared perfectly for 1/4 mile when tuned ...

I think the the NON PP guys with 2.77 FD when tuned ...

My decades of modding/drag racing cars are in the past. My SHO will not be modded in any conceivable way, which is the reason why I used Shodded's bone stock 2.77 vs. 3.19 gears/speed chart.

I believe your configurations are wrong based on your assessment vs the 3.19 gear Ratio.LOL

 

[SHOdded]

How much is the 1" difference in wheel setup going to change the gearing? .2?

IDK, but sounds like it is a straight % of new tire diameter/old tire diameter.  So if you go from 20" tire height to 21" tire height for the 2.77 gear, you would effectively be running a 2.91 gear.
http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/reading/calculators.htm#GearRatio

 

[SHOnUup]

Thank you.

Rich

 

[14 TUX BL]

I believe your configurations are wrong based on your assessment vs the 3.19 gear Ratio.LOL

I believe your attempt at humor would be wrong based on the outcome of what you presented. LOL

 

[ZSHO]

I believe your configurations are wrong based on your assessment vs the 3.19 gear Ratio.LOL

I believe your attempt at humor would be wrong based on the outcome of what you presented. LOL

This is a respectful and polite forum to say the least,and figured you would show a little more respect,rather than insult my integrity to say the least,guess i'm the idiot that suggested having a poll similiar to this in the beginning.

 

[14 TUX BL]

I believe your configurations are wrong based on your assessment vs the 3.19 gear Ratio.LOL

I believe your attempt at humor would be wrong based on the outcome of what you presented. LOL

This is a respectful and polite forum to say the least,and figured you would show a little more respect,rather than insult my integrity to say the least,guess i'm the idiot that suggested having a poll similiar to this in the beginning.

I made a pun in the same fashion as you, so I hope you realize if you are criticizing me you are actually criticizing yourself first.

That musing aside, I started this thread looking for acceleration/quarter mile figures for 100% bone stock PP vs non PP SHO's. There were really only two examples offered that came close:

a) the person who compared street runs of identically modded PP vs. non PP cars
b) my link to the Popular Mechanics test of a non PP SHO (the only one I could find of a non PP)

But I guess thanks for your input anyways ...

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

We should have some numbers this evening for an alcoholic 2015
....

 

[14 TUX BL]

Ok, let's keep moving forward ...

My plan is to go to a Test/Tune and see what she runs (everything remaining ultra bone stock, right down to tire air pressure). Yesterday, TT was cancelled at my local track due to "extremely cold weather" (lol, life in the Northeast). Today it's open, but it's barely 5 degrees warmer than yesterday and I don't want to make runs in either very cold/very warm temps.

I want times that are void of temperature excuses, that don't need to be put in a Air Density calculator for normalization.

Hopefully, there should be a decent day sometime within the next couple of months.

 

[ElvenSho]

I bet 80+ with an even start the non-pp will walk away with same mods ofcourse.
Edit: just by looking at some youtube vids.

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

2015 PP

13.48@103.12

20-30 MPH headwind

DA 667
Corrected
13.404 @ 103.741 MPH

 

[SHOnUup]

2015 PP

13.48@103.12

20-30 MPH headwind

DA 667
Corrected
13.404 @ 103.741 MPH

Solid time for stock. Was this with any corn in the mix?

Rich

 

[FoMoCoSHO]

2015 PP

13.48@103.12

20-30 MPH headwind

DA 667
Corrected
13.404 @ 103.741 MPH

Solid time for stock. Was this with any corn in the mix?

Rich

1.8 corn
.2 meth

I fueled up after the track with just 2 gallons of corn (no meth) and the car immediately made more power via Torque. I think the meth screws with AFR, pressure, and possibly how the flame forms in cylinder. Lots of very random +KR events lead me to that conclusion.

Peak WHP/WTQ via Torque PRO

Stock
290/290

Stock + 1.8 gal of E-85 + .2 gal meth
316/336

Stock with 2 gal E-85 only
336/347

Hopefully I can get a calm day to retest as I suspect the 2015 is a tad quicker.