AJPTurbo boost regulator mod with EcoPowerParts charge pipes
- Thread starter derfdog15
- Start date
I have been dialing in the mbc the last day and a half when I was out running errands. This method is not recommended for the set it quickly mindset. I dialed it one way till I got to the point that it closed, dialed it the other way till it opened, I am now in the process of closing it again. Prob doing 1/2 turns each time on the mbc. Have about 20 adjustments under my belt. More to go, just some information for anyone looking to go down this road.
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Quick update on my Tial spring preload idea. I don't think it's going to work. Tial says the cap threads are M10x1. The M10x1 screws I got are a sloppy fit and would surely tear up the aluminum cap if any sort of spring pressure was applied. Unless I can find a better fitting fastener, I think that idea has been deemed "not feasible".
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MiWiAu said:
Well that is certainly a shame...
f8tlSHO said:
Can't say you weren't warned. That is the main reason I just went the TiAL route. I am sure you will get it sorted out though.
MiWiAu said:
Two graphs attached, as I said last night, first pull (full 3rd gear) had lower numbers, probably due to adaptive, etc. as it was right after the reflash.
Second graph is where I saw the peak number, it is ~2k to ~3.5K pull, had to let out as speed limit was 40 (no longer on the highway)
Peak numbers, in HP and Ft_Lb for the first graph: 432.9/487.9
Peak numbers, in HP and Ft_Lb for the second graph: 348.8/504.4
Based on this, that may be somewhat close to the peak Torque number at the flywheel, though I am thinking it will be a bit higher once a proper pull is done (and of course the dyno put more load on the car, thus the car commanded a higher torque value - by my understanding). Also traction control was intererfering.
For Horsepower, the first pull is sort of indicative, though due to its lower power, I bet there is a lot more margin. Second set of numbers, that HP is almost not worth even looking at, IMO, since the peak HP was ~5k on both the full 3rd gear pull above, as well as on the dyno (it hit peak and flattened out). I am betting some of the reason torque is higher is due to traction control being off.
Enjoy!
Ok, I think I am going to tap into the brake booster line instead of the way I have it now. This line comes directly off the intake.
I can't seem to get a consistent result with the wastegate. I changed to the other spring that I have, didn't seem to make much difference. Both springs I have seem to be about the same pressure at the same height when compressed. I think I am going to take them to work and check them on my spring tester.
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I can't seem to get a consistent result with the wastegate. I changed to the other spring that I have, didn't seem to make much difference. Both springs I have seem to be about the same pressure at the same height when compressed. I think I am going to take them to work and check them on my spring tester.
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f8tlSHO said:Ok, I think I am going to tap into the brake booster line instead of the way I have it now. This line comes directly off the intake.
I can't seem to get a consistent result with the wastegate. I changed to the other spring that I have, didn't seem to make much difference. Both springs I have seem to be about the same pressure at the same height when compressed. I think I am going to take them to work and check them on my spring tester.
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That is the line I tapped my boost gauge and BOV into (originally had all three there but moved the source on the wastegate when troubleshooting my springs).
The other side, closer to the engine would most likely be a bit easier to tap into, you can remove the hard, plastic like line, that is there stock, and replace with a section of "fuel line" or similar, from the intake to your T, then from the T back to the brake booster and to your wastegate.
f8tlSHO said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 22 kpa and 18-19 kpa?
I would go by sound...I would say you should hear the noise and air bleeding off at every WOT upshift and maybe a little longer on the 2-3 wot upshift....Because of the intensity of the boost spike on the 2-3 the "whoosh" sound can last well into 3rd.
f8tlSHO said:
Do you have the MBC on the vacuum line going to the wastegate?
If you do, then I would keep tightening the mbc down until you only hear the wastegate opening at the up shifts like Brad said...
If you keeping tightening and nothing changes then you need to check to make sure the MBC is not faulty or if you don't have it on the vacuum line directly off the wastegate move it there..
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Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.
ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!
I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.
I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.
Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.
Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.
Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.
You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.
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ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!
I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.
I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.
Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.
Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.
SHOdded said:
Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.
You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.
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Yes on the correct line, don't want to sound like an ass, but I completely understand how this mod works. If I close the mbc fully the wastegate will not open. I thought I was getting it dialed in, then this morning the gate is opening about 2psi earlier than yesterday. It's hard to explain my issue through text without writing a small book. Lol. I think I am trying to close too much of a gap in psi with the mbc. May look at buying some different springs. I have the 13psi spring in, even with no mbc it shouldn't open until 13 or right around 13. It's opening around 7 psi..so trying to close that huge gap with the mbc might be too much. Was also thinking about using both springs and cutting the 7 psi spring down to cut back on the spring pressure.StealBlueSho said:
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f8tlSHO said:I don't know if you saw earlier but my reference line right now is about 3" away from the gate, that's why I was thinking about moving it to the brake booster line
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I think trying the brake booster, or the TIP reference would be a good idea, due to how close your reference is, as I mentioned before. My fear is that when the gate is open, your reference is dropping and thus you may be getting some chatter/opening and closing that is not needed and causing pressure issues.
f8tlSHO said:
You mentioned there was a 7 and 13 PSI spring, and both were in the gate to make 20? How are the springs marked? Any chance that you have them swapped. The TiAL gate springs max out at 6PSI for an individual spring IIRC, so that also seems a bit weird. I think maybe you were shorted a spring, and there were supposed to be 3 to make 20, 2 to make 13, and 1 to make 7? Could be wrong, but it seems if TiAL (and Precision as well - have a 44mm wastegate of theirs for my mustang) give you 6 springs and none even rate at 7psi individually, then there must be a reason!
MiWiAu said:Well, I finally got my Turbosmart BRA installed.
ADAPTER MODIFICATION REQUIRED!!
I don't know if the MAP port is a larger diameter on the F150 vs transverse or if my manifold is just out of tolerance, but the adapter shoulder would NOT fit my MAP port.
I carefully removed the o-ring and decided to use a cheap Harbor Freight file and some emery paper to remove enough material from the shoulder to allow me to install the adapter.
Once the adapter is installed, the engine/beauty cover DOES NOT fit. I'm undecided if I want to get some spacers to allow me to reinstall the cover.
Functionally, there seems to be no effect on MAP readings (see below). I would have preferred that the screw included in the kit had the same type of head (T20 torx) as the OE screw to reduce tools required for change.
SHOdded said:
Here is a comparison of baseline (MAP directly mounted to IM) to the Turbosmart Boost Reference Adapter.
You can see, overall the MAP readings averaged 4.2 to 4.7 kPa below TIP.
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Would be interesting to see the two data sets overlaye onto each other, for complete 1:1 comparison. I also am interested to know if it changed any wastegate mod performance for you. I think their may just be manufacturing tolerance/location differences due to transverse that caused your fitment issue, but not entirely sure.
f8tlSHO said:
Oh I know, just trying to help. I was just thinking it might be too much of gap... mine was only about a 1 psi gap.
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Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate
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With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate
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f8tlSHO said:Originally I thought I was missing a spring also, but then I found this
With both springs in the gate wouldn't open so it had to have been closer to 20psi. That's why I was thinking about cutting down one spring to create a lower preload pressure which would create a lower opening pressure on the gate
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That is truly odd, but I do stand corrected, precision uses springs larger than 6psi per spring. (they offer a 1.5, 3, 6,9, and 18psi spring) so 7 and 13 aren't that farfetched, assuming they work. I wonder if the Precision springs would work in the TiAL (I have a bunch at home ready to go into the mustang...)
Here is the Precision spring chart/install instructions, springs are page 8 for anyone interested: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/instruction-manuals/PTE-PW46-Wastegate-Instructions.pdf
As for your gate, IDK how cutting length on a spring would do, I would test the actual springs first.
If you end up going the spring route, I am not sure if you would need F38 style springs, or MV-S springs.
Here is the reference for the MV-S
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/MVSspc.png
and here is the individual spring rating:
https://www.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/graphics/00000001/data/MVSprings2.jpg
Here is F38 (seems to have more combos - infact it has a 7 and a 13 psi spring, so I am betting your gate is replicated from this, as I said before)
http://www.tialsport.com/documents/w3_tial_38_sp.pdf
Good luck, as always, and keep us posted.
IMPROTANT UPDATE/IDEA: Take note of the bleeder valve Boost Controller install mentioned in the precision instructions. It would be a worth a try here. Basically a T going from your vacuum reference to BOTH the wastegate (bottom reference) and MBC inlet. Then from MBC out to wastegate top port (which you currently have VTA I believe?)
This method creates a differential that may be more sufficient for replacing missing spring pressure. Hope this helps. Should work the same on your gate as well.