Meth weird power behavior (renamed from meth failure)

bpd1151 said:
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......

I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer.....  Alky-Controls.

Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.

Did I mention Alky-Controls?

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I agree 100% with your assessment. There were a platitude of reason I personally chose Alky Control. TopherSho is having an issue obviously and being able to remedy his issues with under $150 in parts is an option vs dropping $900 on a new kit.

If the OP doesn't have heart burn buying another meth kit then Alky Control is a great option, and there has only been one pump failure as far I know on our platform with BPD1151 drawing that lucky straw.

Just trying to provide alternatives...

If it was my car, knowing I have a meth dependent tune, and want to maximize my performance with 100% meth, I wouldn't think twice about dropping the money on Alky Control. Cheaper than a new motor!

The OP IMHO is damn lucky the SP pump didn't crap out in the middle of a 1/4 mile run this time around or this thread would have a different more expensive resolution.


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Thanks for all the feedback guys!

So here is my two thoughts..

As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components.  If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.

What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..

As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..
 
TopherSho said:
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

So here is my two thoughts..

As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components.  If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.

What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..

As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..


There have been a motors that have blown up when guys run of out meth. Its not so much the total spark I would be worried about... it's how fast your knock sensors can relay back to the ECU so it can start pulling timing... it's really a race against the clock.. are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.


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TopherSho said:
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

So here is my two thoughts..

As SBS noted I can call sureflow and see about replacing the internals with 100% meth rated components.  If that's possible I will go that route since I'm all set for the rest of the hardware minus the braided lines.

What I need to figure out is how the error light works on the snow kit, if the pump is 'dumb' and is on off. I might just buy and drop in a similar psi rated alky pump..

As to blowing up the motor.. would 6 points if timing really do that? I'm not sure.. I can run 20 pts spark on just 92 gas,. If the pump fully stopped mid run I'd be 6 points over spark..


There have been a motors that have blown up when guys run of out meth. Its not so much the total spark I would be worried about... it's how fast your knock sensors can relay back to the ECU so it can start pulling timing... it's really a race against the clock.. are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.


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StealBlueSho said:
are you running more boost with less throttle control? Your meth is also supplementing your fuel system as well... lots of factors. If it's a conservative meth tune you might be ok... again... just depends on variables.

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I would say i'm running a moderately aggressive Meth build.  Brad was explaining the controls in place and how fast it can adjust,  i would defer to him to explain it better than I.
 
well now i'm flumoxxed.  Snow is claiming the LED does not change color and has only one element.  but that doesn't solve the pump pressure issue so now I am off to make a recorded call to the support staff and press the issue of the pump.

wish me luck..

however this does solve one mystery,  if the pump has no logic,  and the green led is just a green led then i should be able to drop in a replacement pump running the same pressure and re-use the exiting kit.


###################################################################################
From: Snow Performance Tech [mailto:tech@snowperformance.net]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:41 AM
To: Chris Beeck <cbeeck@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Is the stage 1 100% meth compatible? IE run 100% meth no water ? thanks in advance!

Hi Chris,

it does look like it has some different colors - I dont know if that is relating to heat in the circuit or something else , but i can assure you the LED is simply meant to come on when the pump is active , there are not alarm colors in that light.
###################################################################################


###################################################################################
From: Snow Performance Tech [mailto:tech@snowperformance.net]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 8:27 AM
To: Chris Beeck <cbeeck@symantec.com>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: Is the stage 1 100% meth compatible? IE run 100% meth no water ? thanks in advance!

Hi Chris,
The pump is able to run pure methanol - all parts are designed for this.
The green LED is not designed to turn color - if it is showing up as yellow this may be the green coloring fading or burning - it may be a bad LED running hot and overheating the coloring or the coloring did not cure properly and is fading. The light changing color is not indication of pump failure so we dont need to worry about that.
I would be happy to get a new LED light to you - we have never had one turn color before.
###################################################################################

 
I have a email into Alky,  i am asking about the specs of their pump.  amperage, psig.  if it lines up with the snow pump I may opt to buy their pump and replace the snow one with it,  then call sureflow and repair the current pump...
 
Snow called me,  either they are super awesome at bs'ing,  or they really do support 100% meth.  I attached the audio recording.

They think the LED is burning out,  and is unrelated.  the LED only has the one element and is not a error light.
The contact very firmly stated 100% meth is fine for the pump
They do recommend replacing the lines at about a year if you run more than 50% meth
They asked to 12v test the pump and report back.

my thoughts::
I wonder ... does meth getting into the boost reference line have bad effects?
Is there is issue with the pressure switch itself?
did having back pressure from no check valve cause the diaphragm to become malformed?

It sounds like there willing to help if i can prove the pump is not working as designed.    i will get 20 feet of line and have the pump push a bunch of water through it,  then let sit overnight and retest.  if that works i will then push 8/9 pounds of pressure BACK UP the output line and retest again. 

Audio file is 3gp as recorded by my app :P  sorry no wave or mp3 option.
 
bpd1151 said:
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......

I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer.....  Alky-Controls.

Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.

Did I mention Alky-Controls?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

didnt your alky pump fail?  I thought you discovered that all pumps have a life span, and are going to fail at some point. 
 
J-Will said:
bpd1151 said:
Perplexed to still see suggestions at alternate pumps/vendors......

I'll reiterate, a proven, consistent performer.....  Alky-Controls.

Stop beating yourself up and just do it. Headaches, worries, concerns etc. all done with.

Did I mention Alky-Controls?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

didnt your alky pump fail?  I thought you discovered that all pumps have a life span, and are going to fail at some point.
Yes. It did.

They average 2.5-3yrs (no matter mfg'er) according to Julio, owner of Alky-Controls.

And given the amount of meth I pump through mine, certainly a helluva longer duration than what is being reported as experiences here from Snow.

Plus, from what's been reported previously by others, Snow has terrible product support, and their warranty coverage leaves something to be desired.

Which, all combined, leads me right back to my recommendation of Alky-Controls.

Stellar all around. In every facet.

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TopherSho said:
Snow called me,  either they are super awesome at bs'ing,  or they really do support 100% meth.  I attached the audio recording.

They think the LED is burning out,  and is unrelated.  the LED only has the one element and is not a error light.
The contact very firmly stated 100% meth is fine for the pump
They do recommend replacing the lines at about a year if you run more than 50% meth
They asked to 12v test the pump and report back.

my thoughts::
I wonder ... does meth getting into the boost reference line have bad effects?
Is there is issue with the pressure switch itself?
did having back pressure from no check valve cause the diaphragm to become malformed?

It sounds like there willing to help if i can prove the pump is not working as designed.    i will get 20 feet of line and have the pump push a bunch of water through it,  then let sit overnight and retest.  if that works i will then push 8/9 pounds of pressure BACK UP the output line and retest again. 

Audio file is 3gp as recorded by my app :P  sorry no wave or mp3 option.


You can always load your non-meth tune and datalog it...compare your fuel trims to see if the pump is still working...


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FWIW.....

Last I spoke with Julio, a new pump alone was running like $160, & a rebuilt one was running $80.

My 1st pump lasted about 2.5yrs, and I'm on a rebuild pump now.

The rebuilt one's rock'n on year 3 now, as I type this.

Just extra info.

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Still $160...

https://www.alkycontrol.com/product-page/alkycontrol-methanol-injection-modified-pump

Tester kit to verify pump pressure, test for leaks etc...

https://www.alkycontrol.com/product-page/buick-gn-tester-kit



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StealBlueSho said:
You can always load your non-meth tune and datalog it...compare your fuel trims to see if the pump is still working...

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It did pump.. and still does.. sorta.  it seems to lag,  pump then lag again.  makes the car buck bad, after it did that number i turned it off. 

cars in the shop on a unrelated issue so i will have to wait to test it specifically like that,  but i do have a protocol to run.

-----
let car sit overnight. 
drive car with it turned off to greatly over simulate the back pressure thoery..
take nozzle out of the collar.
turn car on accessory.
use a larger eye dropper to trigger the boost reference line (after verifying the boost line itself is fine)
observer and video the spray.
----

but for now all i have is the pump, so i am going to buy some tubing and just jump the pump with the 20 feet of line attached and see if it is struggling all of a sudden.  and maybe try pushing some fluid/air back up the output line and re-test as well.

i may also take 12v to the LED for G&G's

what i also need to do is figure out how to measure the voltage @ the pump to ensure it is getting a full 13 volts.. with the pump in the trunk i may have to set up my phone to video it and attach a voltmeter somehow. 
 
@ TropherSho i'm a bit confused  :-\  !! thought you had your Kit installed by a shop!!!.
FWIW would knock on there Door or try contacting the installers! Z
 
ZSHO said:
@ TropherSho i'm a bit confused  :-\  !! thought you had your Kit installed by a shop!!!.
FWIW would knock on there Door or try contacting the installers! Z

I am in contact,. But there a hour away.. and I prefer solving my own issues. 

If I come up without an answer I will take it in but it's a last resort since the tests are pretty straightforward.

 
:P  Snow now includes a check valve in their builds... dang it.  Mine did not come with one.

Whats In The Box:
300 PSI UHO (Ultra High Output) Pump
3 Quart Reservoir
All Tubing Necessary for Installation
20' ¼ Inch High Temp Nylon Tubing
18" High Pressure Boost Line
Adjustable Boost Switch (1-15 PSI)
Pig Tail Harness
Level Sensor Upgrade
>>High Flow Check Valve
2 Hyper-Sonic™ Nozzles
Required Hardware Needed For Installation
Snow Performance Running S Decal
Comprehensive Instructions to Install on Any Forced Induction Vehicle
Snow Performance 1-Year Warranty
 
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