AJPTurbo boost regulator mod with EcoPowerParts charge pipes

[StealBlueSHO]

Point is, don't bank on wastegate spring combinations by the spring chart alone, there is a reason for them developing the chart..

During Brad and my testing I needed around a 16.5 - 17 or so spring rate which is not available via the spring combinations.. verified when I called TiAL.. so that's when I threw on a manual boost controller..

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[MiWiAu]

Yeah, you can use up to three springs (small, medium, and large diameter) in any combination, but you can't use two of the same diameter. My kit came with 2 springs of each diameter.

When I put together my spring chart, I took this into account. There were two options for the 17.4 springs and I think there were 3 options for the 15.95 setting.

Some of the other duplicates, if memory serves, were well below or above what is likely to be your required set point.

I also considered a manual boost controller early on, but Brad was able to dial it in with the tune.


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[derfdog15]

Yeah, you can use up to three springs (small, medium, and large diameter) in any combination, but you can't use two of the same diameter. My kit came with 2 springs of each diameter.

When I put together my spring chart, I took this into account. There were two options for the 17.4 springs and I think there were 3 options for the 15.95 setting.

Some of the other duplicates, if memory serves, were well below or above what is likely to be your required set point.

I also considered a manual boost controller early on, but Brad was able to dial it in with the tune.


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I am hoping to stay away from the MBC route on this car, if possible, but if needed I am open to it. I think we will be able to dial it in without need for the MBC though. I have one for my mustang turbo build that I am on the fence about using, so there is one readily available, but I think with the 15psi commanded we should be ok with the 17.4 wastegate setting.

 

[ajpturbo]

Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

 

[MiWiAu]

And I thought I was being a pain in the ass. I feel better now. LOL


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[8nutz8]

apparently i just stumbled on the perfect springs for my tune. 17.4 spring combo and 15.5 commanded boost. it still gets a boost spike above commanded but the gate opens right before it starts to hurt fuel pressure so it's kind of the best of both worlds. only adjustment Brad had to make was keeping the throttle open


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[StealBlueSHO]

Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

Yea....I probably do have several forms of OCD.. I had the MBC tagged with white out on the threads for different ambient temperature ranges too... The colder it got, the less spring pressure I used on the MBC... Crazy? Probably but my fuel pressure was always within a safe limit and the car would just fly... I was a half a step away from buying the Pro Racer Pack to start learning to tune it myself.. because I am OCD like that.. but then the family stuff took precedence...

My car would spike at 15 psi but for some reason would hold it for a lot of rpm range...even though commanded was about 14psi... my car does not handle boost spikes that well from fuel pressure perspective which is why the wastegate mod was crucial...But my car has a lot of weirdness that Brad found out..And was causing me headaches... However, you can throw spark at it like a champ on pump gas...

I digress... The MBC did allow to me set how much boost I wanted to spike and since my car would ride those spikes through a lot of the gear.. it made a lot of sense to use it....IMHO..

Sometimes I get hell-bent on getting something to run the way I want it... But I blame Brad on facilitating my OCDness with his willingness to help... He probably should have asked for more money...

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[8nutz8]

Yeah derf we will get it dialed in without a mbc but steal blue is super meticulous and is proficient with turbo components and reading datalogs and i think he was hell bent on running exactly what boost level he preferred with the spring pack he preferred and was comfortable fine tuning and tweaking and doing the trial and error with the mbc

He didnt mind so i didnt mind but normally id prefer to keep it simple for the end user and i want to avoid the extra mechanical device and you dont have a real good point of reference when you roll the knob on a mbc

When i can see and easily change desired tip(boost) in the tune to make a particular spring work and send you on your way

But yeah an mbc can get you in between springs if you are really wanting to run a specific boost level

But honestly steal blue is a sick individual who gets off on testing wastegate spring rates and most likely suffers multiple types of OCD lol

Yea....I probably do have several forms of OCD.. I had the MBC tagged with white out on the threads for different ambient temperature ranges too... The colder it got, the less spring pressure I used on the MBC... Crazy? Probably but my fuel pressure was always within a safe limit and the car would just fly... I was a half a step away from buying the Pro Racer Pack to start learning to tune it myself.. because I am OCD like that.. but then the family stuff took precedence...

My car would spike at 15 psi but for some reason would hold it for a lot of rpm range...even though commanded was about 14psi... my car does not handle boost spikes that well from fuel pressure perspective which is why the wastegate mod was crucial...But my car has a lot of weirdness that Brad found out..And was causing me headaches... However, you can throw spark at it like a champ on pump gas...

I digress... The MBC did allow to me set how much boost I wanted to spike and since my car would ride those spikes through a lot of the gear.. it made a lot of sense to use it....IMHO..

Sometimes I get hell-bent on getting something to run the way I want it... But I blame Brad on facilitating my OCDness with his willingness to help... He probably should have asked for money...

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ditto! i was prepared to buy several different spring combos and get it to open at a precise point, right when your reaping the benefits of the spike but not hurting fpr. and contemplating buying the software . . but with brad around he knows the tuning aspect so well it's hard to justify going through the learning curve to find out you can't create a tune as good as his lol!


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[ajpturbo]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

 

[StealBlueSHO]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

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[ajpturbo]

It's some kind of inferred calculation from barometric pressure....Not entirely sure

 

[8nutz8]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

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AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


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[FoMoCoSHO]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


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There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf

 

[8nutz8]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


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There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf

sweet, thanks for the education i figured it had to have one just wasn't sure where it was. haven't looked but can you log baro?


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[FoMoCoSHO]

Yeah 8nutz, and your car presented a unique problem and added a twist to the boost calculations because of the altitude and barometric pressure but in the end I think we really customized your tune for it and found out how to utilize the functions in the stock ECU to adjust boost for elevation which I was really pleased with.

So in case anyone didn't know, if the calibration is setup properly you can set different boost levels at different elevations in order to protect the turbos or run them harder if at lower elevations to make more power.

Where does the ECU pull the altitude variable from? The onboard GPS?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

AJP will have to comment for more comprehensive knowledge. . but as far as i've seen on the x4 the map2 sensor will read your barometric/atmospheric pressure with key on/no start condition. at my altitude it reads 83kpa or 12.1 psi.  not sure if the car is equipped with a individual barometric pressure sensor like i've had in previous platforms. but yes, ajp pioneered a tune where as i climb altitude it will switch to a torque based algorithm and command different levels of boost based on barometric pressure. truly an expert tune imho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a baro sensor on the PCM board

Pg 154

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/ford_content/catalog/motorcraft/OBDSM1505.pdf

sweet, thanks for the education i figured it had to have one just wasn't sure where it was. haven't looked but can you log baro?


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Yup

 

[glock-coma]

 

[derfdog15]

Once I get some logs with the 17.4 spring sent to Brad I'll see if he minds posting them here, I added the  barometric PID to my data log file a little while ago because I thought it would be nice to see ambient pressure when logging.

He sent me the modified tune, we are also trying to shut off the Electronic BOVs, so I can fully remove them from the car, so a little testing will be needed. If that works, I will be super happy, but worst case I will go back to how others have done it, and cap them off and zip tie them out of the way.

I seem to have gotten lucky in my travels as the E85 stations nearing my parents house are few and far between, but close enough to get me from one to the next!

 

[MiWiAu]

He sent me the modified tune, we are also trying to shut off the Electronic BOVs, so I can fully remove them from the car, so a little testing will be needed.

Is it a CEL that prevents full removal of the OE BOVs or are there other functional issues? If they can't be turned off, maybe a jumper like this would work (or could be made) to allow removal?

http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Kompact-Series-BOV-BPV-Spares-Accessories/BOV-CEL-Plug-Ford-Mustang-Fiesta-EcoBoost.html


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[MiWiAu]

Tial spring chart attached, as promised.

I also reached out to Tial early this AM asking if they could provide me the nominal spring lengths and rates for each color, but their initial response seemed resistant to reveal that information.

I could easily measure my springs, but I'm not sure what they're spec'd to be, and Brad and I were suspecting something was up with the springs in my kit (either mismarked or out of spec), since I required the 18.85 spring combo to work with 14.5 PSI of boost.

If I'm able to pry the info out of Tial, I'll let you guys know.

 

[ajpturbo]

Post any of my logs any time